Transformation with Tonic Herbalism (EP#4)

- Hey everybody, welcome to the SuperFeast podcast. I'm Mason Taylor, and we have an absolute ripper for you today. Bit of a twist. I was on a podcast quite recently with a beautiful woman I met up in Noosa when I was doing my tour up on the Sunshine Coast called Estee Manning, and she invited me to come onto her podcast called The Hotel Guest Wellbeing Show. So she has a really beautiful concept and podcast where she's helping hotels of all shapes and sizes get onto practices, get onto ideas and tools to keep their guests super healthy. And she thought that medicinal mushrooms and tonic herbalism would be one of those avenues that she could invite them to get their guests healthy. But the podcast was just so comprehensive and went in so many different directions, went so deep in terms of asking about the roots of SuperFeast. Why SuperFeast went the direction of powdered extracts, where we harvest, why we harvest and source the way we do. What all the blends are about and the deep internal intention organ-wise, system-wise behind the blends. Went deep into the philosophy of jing, chi, shen. And then asking all the little nitty-gritty questions. Can I add it to coffee? How much should I be adding? But it was just so inclusive of simplicity and the depth of complexity of the philosophy that drives SuperFeast, and is the reason why so many people love SuperFeast. And I just feel for anyone interested in Taoist tonic herbalism, I was really given the opportunity to share concisely and with depth this philosophy that really drives this style of herbalism. And I just thought it's too good not to share with all you beautiful people. So with that, I'm gonna hand it over to Estee to then hand it over to me to dive into all these beautiful herbs, enjoy.

- I'm so happy to have you here today. Brendan and myself, we take your mushrooms in the morning.

- That's awesome.

- And I'm just really looking forward to finding out more about them.

- Yeah, I'm also like thanks for having me. So stoked to be here. Awesome space, beautiful plants. It's always nice to be in that kind of energy. Happy to talk about the mushies and the tonic herbs. Let's go down the rabbit hole.

- Beautiful. So I guess like to start by asking what is exciting you at the moment? What do you go to bed thinking about or waking up thinking about, or maybe it creeps into meditation? What is exciting you at the moment?

- Yeah, there's a lot exciting me at the moment. I've got a little bubba, a year and a half old down and back in Byron Bay. And just setting up, well you know just feeling the emergence of our little family culture and really laying down the roots of that. And inclusive you know in that is the work that we're doing at SuperFeast, my little business baby. It's been going since 2011. That growing and getting you know some real rubber hitting the road on that mission to you know further bridge tonic herbalism, Taoist tonic herbalism, medicinal mushrooms over into this world. Bring back that beautiful not only preventative health, but that intention for long term health n'stuff. You know medicinal mushrooms and adaptogens are really trending right now. Really trying to make sure that that trend lands into people's personal apothecaries, into their lifestyle flows. It's because in the West here, you know no one's really doing the exact same thing that their parents are doing. We've somewhat got clean slates, and we're creating our own personal culture, family culture. And a piece of the pie there when it comes to longterm health, that kind of longterm health. It's like you know in your 90s still holding you know a rocking conversation, you know walking up the hills, still out there foraging. You know being able to like play with the kiddies. That's like they're these important things that really you know that excites me around longevity. I tune into that timeline for myself. And getting these herbs in that little piece in people's personal cultures mean that intention for their longterm health. But they can consistently practice using these herbs, adaptogens, and mushies so that you know we can just get a little bit of regular rockin' health that isn't reliant on institutions and reliant on external maybe practitioners or systems that are really working on external symptoms. It's something in our personal diet and lifestyle that's always turning our internal world and our internal function getting to the core of health. That excites me.

- Oh my God, that excites me. That is awesome. It's so cool.

- Yeah, it's a lot.

- Yeah, well it would be great if you could explain what you're doing with SuperFeast. And also the story on what drew you to that.

- Yeah, cool. In 2010, I was traveling, and I'd been doing a lot of backpacking and ski instructing and bar tending. And so I was having a ball, but my health wasn't probably in the best place. And while I was actually in a bus in Bolivia, had just one of these moments. I dropped into my body and started actually feeling my symptoms, almost acknowledging my symptoms for the first time. 'Cause it's like easy just to like you know under the rug, under the rug, under the rug.

- Have a drink.

- Yeah, have a drink, you know 'cause like hair of the dog. And so I was like you know I was in my early 20s you know as well, so it's easy, again, it's easy. You got a lot of bounce at that point. It's not like smacking you in the face. But really came to terms with the fungal infection that I had in my body, and the symptoms I had, that infection coming out through my arms. And you know a bit of a fungal rash coming out of arms. And just exhaustion, basic exhaustion. I was on this bus and just couldn't lift my head out the window. And I thought you know what I don't like that trajectory. I just wanna tweak some things. I got back to Australia, started my last year at uni which is an international business degree of all things, and I just studied tonic herbalism, longevity practices, how do I get the best out of my body, the most out of my life? And came across many different practices. Started going and harvesting my own wild spring water. Started and became a yoga teacher. I then found tonic herbalism in my studies. And that excited me because I wasn't despite being aware of these symptoms, I just didn't focus on them. I focused on you know I wanna get the most out of my body, my organs and get in touch with this thing. And tonic herbalism was all about that. It didn't have to necessarily be a problem in order to take those herbs. If you've got like an intention, an intention for health somewhat ambiguous to the mind, but the body can feel it. You know what you really want to get longterm. And tonic herbalism meets you there. And so that's how I started getting into it. And then I was doing a little yoga training and teaching. And then I was just like I wanna do something different. I wanna start something, and it was in 2011, my mom's like look you know you're banging on about these herbs and into other like supplements, detox strategies and super foods. She was like why don't you do that? And so she backed me. There I was in Gladesville in mom's spare room in Sydney starting up SuperFeast. And from that point, I've been doing markets and workshops and touring you know Australia and the world just educating about them. And back when it was just like not cool. Mushrooms were not cool when we started. And people would like throw up in their mouths when you told them to put medicinal mushrooms in their coffee. Now you know it's like trendy as.

- That's what I do. I love my morning mushroom coffee.

- Yeah, so do I. It's so good to see. It's so good to see it permeating. Not that I didn't expect it, but I didn't like, you know like not that I didn't like think it could happen I should say. But, me, I wasn't expecting this to really occur. You know I wasn't like one day you know it's gonna be trendy. I was just walking around banging on.

- Why do you think that is?

- The fact that it's actually like hip now?

- Yeah.

- Yeah, I think about it a lot. So let's look at medicinal mushrooms because what I'm doing at SuperFeast is specifically at the moment where we're really honing in on and getting a foundations erupting at SuperFeast is Taoist tonic herbalism. And so this is a style of herbalism where these herbs back in 200 BC when Shen Nong created the first consumer medic herb, the Shennong Bencaojing. That laid out three classifications of herbs, inferior herbs, regular herbs, superior herbs. And the superior herbs could be taken longterm for longevity as a functional food in the diet but with the medicinals that nourish organs, immune system, and chi flow among many other things. And so that's what fascinated me. And so underneath tonic herbalism, you have medicinal mushrooms, roots, barks, berries, so on and so forth, some minerals like pearl, and many other herbs. And that's what I work with is those tonic herbs. And medicinal mushrooms are one of those. Like you know one of those type of tonic herb. Now they are all technically adaptogens. But that's just like a Western classification. Underneath, if I look under tonic herbalism, medicinal mushrooms, berries, barks, roots, then I do a Western classification of one of them say like reishi mushroom. Reishi mushroom is antiinflammatory. It's antiviral. It's a hepato-protective, protects the liver. One of the reasons I think they're so popular right now, a food that's protecting your liver constantly, a herb. And then you get adaptogenic as another classification which means that it's not going to cause any further harm to the body when taken in an appropriate dose. It's going to have an accumulative benefit over time, and it's going to have a multidirectional capacity or benefit to the body meaning it's not just gonna drive the immune system up or drive the immune system down. Ideally, you're getting in the nourishing core immune pathways or whatever function we're talking about in the body. Maybe the adrenals with cortisol, and it's gonna help restore along with lifestyle factors the core balance and your capacity to come back into homeostasis yourself. And that's what an adaptogen is.

- So is it basically you have the medicinal mushrooms, and they go to where they need to in the body rather than specifically one area? And then you just allow the intelligence obviously of the body to do its own thing?

- That's basically the whole idea. That's when, going back to your question of why, now let's look at, 'cause you can see that medicinal mushrooms and particularly adaptogens are really hot right now. And so I just wanted to explain where those classifications fit in which we've just done. But let's limit it to the mushrooms 'cause they're trending their asses off. And you know like Whole Foods said that it was like in Urban American said it was like the trend of 2018 and making waves. And why is that? I think one of the things with the health scene is the health scene got quite sick of the carrot in front of the donkey part of like you know take this, get this quick result. And I'm being a little bit obvious there, but that's been there. It was kind of there with diet fads. It's been there with super foods, so on and so forth. This is something that it's just built into the herbal system, built into the system of taking medicinal mushrooms is longterm use and gets you thinking about your inner world. It gets you thinking about your immune system. And you have the intention of tuning your immune system and your organs. So it's got way more of a real feel to it, but you're in control, and you're not just fingers crossed I hope this works.

- Well what's the difference between medicinal mushrooms and things like super foods or vitamins? Is it because of the adaptogenic qualities?

- Yeah, interesting. I mean like super food's a funny one. You know whether it's you know a marketing term or just you know foods that just pack like a massive punch, you know? And we can sort of talk about super foods like spirulina and clorella and blue-green algae, amazing. I think they're great foods. Medicinal mushrooms being heavily medicinal. Like the medicinal mushroom's one. Another example, I think they've been so popular right now is 'cause we have such a pandemic really of deficient immune systems where we see so much reliance on an institution like Western medicine which is great that it's there. It has it's part of course. But you know people are feeling now like they don't want to be crossing their fingers and rely on an institution. They want to get back into control.

- Oh that is, yeah definitely.

- And they are. It's like you can feel it. It's palpable. And again, like medicinal mushrooms are just this like dangling the carrot in front of the donkey like take this and that's it, tick. You know you've got your immune system, but it's something that people can work with and feel over decades. They've got a piece of the puzzle, their diet, whether it gets weaved into their morning coffee. Something like that's easy to implement. You know got moms that put it in the spag bowl and give it to the kids, yeah we were like--

- I'll have to remember that one.

- I have three years at French's Forrest Markets in Sydney working with moms trying to get mushies into kids. Like, you know I got four kids. They go two of them won't eat anything green. They won't have a smoothie. They won't do this. Their mom's just like, "I'm not going to have "this be another winter where everyone gets the flu "and goes down for three weeks." I want them to have immunity. And so eventually she comes back, and she's like, "I got it in the spag bowl." I'm like, "Yeah, cool." They're not heat sensitive.

- Wow, that's really good. Oh yeah.

- Like these ones particularly, like you know the mushies, they're extracted as well. So we've gone to the trouble of extracting them in water and/or ethanol as well. So there's a water and alcohol extraction. So it's fully bio available. Then it's about redox, so there's no alcohol actually present. So then they're just ready to go. So you can put it into your hot chocolate or your coffee, or your spag bowl, or your little raw treats, or whatever you're doing. We call it Trojan horsing in the mushrooms. And it's just a nice, functional way to weave that in. So people are feeling the effects. People are feeling over longterm use, their immune system come back online. So it's not so much causing a reliance on another product or fad. They're just like you know it's not like all about these mushrooms have given me immunity. People are feeling their immune systems come back online. And even if after a couple years of taking them, you take the mushrooms away, you can't take away the fact that that person's felt their immune system. Or in the instance of this particular class of herbs in the Taoist system called jing herbs, J, I, N, G. And these have focused on the kidneys and adrenals. We're restoring core energy. That's the core energy that brings forth our capacity to just like get up in the morning and go all day, have stamina, have power in the body. Our libido, capacity for fertility, and our capacity for ourselves to reproduce, and so more jing we have, the more longevity in a sense there is.

- So what's chi then in relation to jing? Is it something similar?

- That's a good question. Yeah, in this system, we have these three treasures. It's in the Taoist system. So Taoist system coming out from the Orient. A system of a philosophy of aligning yourself with nature and living a very sustainable life in the flow so that you can just get the richness of life. That's why I like Taoism because it's not deity faced. There's no gender. It's just like let's get the jing of the body which lives in the kidneys and adrenals nice and strong. That's like the wax of the candle, and this'll lead onto chi. People in the West are burning candles at both ends, burning through their jing, a lot of cortisol smashing coffees and energy drinks. Very inefficient way to use up the energy of your body. And it's literally burning the candle at both ends. And so when we talk about longevity, we're not necessarily just talking about adding years of life. That can be a happy accident, but we really are talking about adding life to those years. Because as we find in the West, a lot of people hit 50 and 60, and all of a sudden, they're depleted. And then that's like at that point, you just hit like a slow decline. Where we'd like to see more richness in the life ideally right up to the end. So jing is that base. That's the wax, the candle substance, bone health, hormonal health. The flame is the chi. And so chi is taking the matter, the blood, the hormones, and even the organs and the bones themselves and then making them vital bringing mobility to them. It's the electromagnetic flow through our body at the same time running along our energy pathways which correlates to fascial chains--

- Oh, I'm loving this.

- Me too, let's keep on going. And that's chi. Chi correlates to the way we process emotions which I think this is becoming a less floppy kind of organization. It's starting to ground into physiology. It's starting to see those correlations around physiological function, functional anatomy, energy pathways, and the way that the electromagnetic energy moves through organs and then changes shape or direction through those organs. And when we don't have proper organ function say through the liver, the chi can't move through. You know can't do its thing. It forgets how to express. We're gonna possibly see an excess of what we are kind of interpreting as anger coming through that. And so chi's got a lot to do with that. It's nice, have the organs flowing so the chi's flow through vital. You know sparkle in your eye especially if the liver's healthy, you get a sparkle in your eye.

- Wow, so basically if you have a really healthy body using things like medicinal mushrooms or what have you, just a really healthy lifestyle, then your chi is gonna be flowing. You're gonna be feeling good. The body's gonna be, yeah, just functioning at its best.

- Yeah, that's it. I guess we didn't even touch on the fact that the third treasure being shen means spirit. That would be wisdom. You know just a rad human, being able to sit with yourself and just be happy and content and become a wise, bad ass human as you get older. Each of the tonic herbs from the Taoist system, and then even if you look at it from a planetary system, we can still use this languaging and you know apply that to other tonic herbs from around the world. They going to tone, jing, chi, or shen. These herbs are going to tone one of those treasures what makes them a tonic herb. And so we look at the jing herbs like he shou wu, eucommia, cordyceps that beautiful medicinal mushroom. They're the jing herbs that tone in jing.

- So they're the organs within the body.

- The kidneys and adrenals specifically. And the jing that exists within ourselves which is our genetic potential capacity to create energy ourselves. Then you've got herbs like cordyceps. We look at that, that's like a bridging one. It can tone jing and tone chi 'cause that's toning lung function, our capacity to create energy from that atmospheric exchange. Astragalus is a primary chi tonic. And so that's working purely on spleen and lung, but then that circulatory capacity that we have, that capacity to move chi, therefore move blood and bring back that vitality and that skip in our step. And then we have herbs like reishi, reishi mushroom which we touched on before. Now reishi's a beautiful herb. Probably the most revered herb in the whole system. Red polypore mushroom grows off trees, living trees and deadwood trees. So that's its natural food, wood. That's why we grow our medicinal mushrooms on wood, and we harvest them that way either completely wild or semi wild crafted from where they're actually, from their homeland. Reishi tones jing, tones chi, and it tones shen. And it's primarily a shen tonic, and that's why it was really revered as a practice to support a meditative practice. You know and from a treatment side of things if there's anxiety, restlessness in the mind, we use a herb like reishi. It's a good herbal friend to have calm the mind. Get the mind and the body in consortium once again so then the spirit can settle down in the body especially you know they're coming through the heart. And you can just walk around, again, with that skip in your step. You know just having that ability to be present and just enjoy your life, enjoy time with your friends. You know enjoy time with nature, gain insights. You know just so you can know yourself a little bit better. So that's a very quick rundown of that system.

- Wow, that's beautiful. That is really beautiful. Oh, so many questions. So manythat I don't know where I could possibly go.

- Yeah infinite, that's the whole idea about taking tonic herbs. They're multidirectional.

- But just touching on reishi, like what's interesting 'cause when I have my morning pot of coffee, I initially was using reishi to help balance it. 'Cause it's like the caffeine, but then reishi, and you know just to bring back that balance. What's a really good one? Actually now I'm just using the Mason mushroom mix. But what would you recommend to put in that?

- Yeah, good question. So coffee, I think it's important to see coffee as a herb.

- Well it is, isn't it?

- It is. Like one of the most consumed herbs in the world. And it happens to be a diuretic, happens to be a stimulant. That's it classification, and that's its energy. Not good or bad, that's just what it is. A lot of people have a reliance on coffee, reliance on coffee means that there is depleted jing, kidney, adrenal capacity is depleted, maybe too much cortisol, or maybe even you've been running on too high cortisol for so long that the body's turned off the capacity to lift it up, and the cortisol's just dropped down too low. That comes with many longterm symptoms. So it's good not to have a reliance, but if you're gonna do it, what you're tuning into is just creating just a little bit more of a balanced herb, balanced tonic herbal releaser. Now we can say that that's balanced energetically, but we can also just say that's balanced in the sense that you're taking a stimulant in coffee, and you're adding a herb like reishi that is unnerving, that can get in and nourish the nervous system, ensure the nervous system isn't just gonna be like smashed into that sympathetic nervous system. It's a cardiovascular tonic, and it's adaptogenic. So it's gonna help that elixir that you're having feel a little bit more well-rounded. So it's not just gonna come in and smash your adrenals. That's why people put in medicinal mushrooms just the reishi. The Jing is a really good one. If you feel depleted, get on the Jing. Just said, we've got Neural Nectar here. To say, it's brain fog. Your memory, you're wanting to tone. You want to get your cognition back.

- Well this one, it's known for you're stretching yourself and you know growing and learning. And you know can this one really help in supporting your brain?

- Yep.

- From that point of view as well.

- Well that's the idea around that like inotropic blend bringing circulation to the cerebrum and basically strengthening all manner and facets of function within the brain including gray matter, including white matter, including dopamine and neurotransmitter function, but grounded it, because in Taoism, I hope everyone's okay with us jumping all around because it's like stick with us. We're just giving you options of herbs to add to your coffee. Or you can omit the coffee, and just have that full herbal attention. That's possible too. With the Neural Nectar, it's important 'cause when I have blends, I have four blends we've talked you about three of them, Mason's Mushroom is the mushroom blend, Jing, kidney, adrenals, core energy, Neural Nectar, for the brain, for the nervous systems, inotropic especially if you're using your mind a lot, a lot, a lot, and you hit that mental exhaustion. You know it's to support that. And if there is any cognitive decline, it's a blend for that. And I've created these blends trying to make them as well balanced as possible. They're very balanced energetically. Full power with the intention, say you know brain potency for the Neural Nectar, but I've made sure that there's a few herbs. Making sure that the energy's coming down slightly and really nourishing the kidneys at the same time. Bit a yin to disperse energy, so it's not just up, up, up, up, up. You know so that's like something I just like throwing out there. I create these so the majority of the population's gonna be able to you know start a nice quarter teaspoon dose and get up to about a teaspoon over a week or two week period.

- Okay, that was my question because how much do I put it? And yeah, 'cause I mean some of them are sort of more stronger, and I guess it's just getting used to you know that flavor changing which is what I did anyway with the butter coffee which I adore. So up to a teaspoon, to get up to a teaspoon.

- Yeah, get up to a teaspoon. If you don't want it to change the flavor of your coffee, just keep the dose a little bit lower, and maybe you can add a big teaspoon into like a smoothie, or into just like a nighttime tonic. You know something like that. You don't have to mix them, but the taste is amazing. You put the Mason's Mushrooms, or the Jing in a coffee, it's hard to kind of get the flavor taking over that coffee. It still feels and tastes like you have a really good dark brew. I mean there's many ways. I like hot chocolates. I make hot chocolates with mine. You know hot water, get my fat, or my butter, or my coconut oil, put my herbs, my cacao, blend that up. That's a really nice delivery system too.

- Oh, I have to use that one for my daughter.

- Yeah, it's a good way to Trojan horse in medicinal mushrooms.

- All right, can we talk about say the main ones? I guess I've just touched on that. But I really like that you mentioned to take Jing in the morning because I can see how with our very busy, stressful lives, how that causes depletion. And so what would be the best ones to take say you know in the morning or during the day or in the evening?

- Yeah, good call. So yeah, we do like Jing in the morning. Now I take the majority of my herbs in the morning just because that fits in with my lifestyle flow. I don't necessarily, the one reason I've got extract powders in sexy miron jars and peka bags as well is because I want people to be able to do it the way they want to do it. It's gonna work for their lifestyle. 'Cause if you think about, you start this practice. You think about how am I gonna be able to do this for 10 years? Or how is it gonna work? And so for me, having a Jing first thing in the morning, and just say you want to be off stimulants, you can just put Jing or mushrooms in hot water, little bit of honey, stir it up and drink it down like that.

- That works, yeah.

- That's like an instant tea. Easy way to do it. Jing in the morning, Mason's Mushies in the morning. I would suggest Neural Nectar, inotropic herbs in the morning, also nice in the afternoon. You know you could have as a little pick me up if you're needing it, a Jing or an astragalus or a Mason's Mushrooms in the afternoon. At night, I like taking herbs at night. I can have the mushrooms or the Jing herbs at night, no problem. Some people are still going through the process of really awakening that chi flow through their organs. So it can feel, they're not stimulants, but it can feel stimulating sometimes. That's something for everyone to workout for themselves. But reishi is an incredible herb to have at night. It really helps bring in deep sleep cycles, calm the mind. Reishi and camomile tea.

- Oh, I have a camomile tea, so if I can mix that with reishi, then yeah, perfect.

- It's perfect. You know it can just be a little quarter teaspoon, half a teaspoon. Generally don't need much more than half a teaspoon with reishi. It's potent, and ours over the years has got more potent 'cause where we wild craft or semi wild craft as well call it. Outdoors, we might get a little bit of a help you know inoculating the mushie into the wood maybe a little top or a canopy, but then once they start kicking, canopy comes off, and they're in the wild in the elements. And so then what we do after a year or two, we'll circulate where on the mountain that it's being grown so that it doesn't deplete the environment, so it's stagnates. It's not lab growing. I don't wanna be a lab grown human, I don't wanna have lab grown mushrooms. I want more wilderness going through my organs, you know? The more wild it is, the more that the jing, chi, shen's in there. I mean then we've got like chaga in there. And then in the Beauty Blend schizandra / schisandra, and we've got them individual as well, 100% wild. That's why they're so good.

- Well let's talk about the Beauty Blend then. What does that promote or do within the body?

- I love that blend. So Beauty Blend, the name came through, and I was like should I really call it Beauty Blend? After awhile, I've become really like you know fond of that name because the idea is for people to start getting connected to organ function especially the liver. It's heavily focused on the liver. See it's kind of in the realm of the detoxifying herb because generally more detoxification is necessary to keep people healthy at this current time when there's so much environmental toxicity and metabolic toxicity for that matter. But it's not an aggressive detoxifier like other herbs are. This is for longterm use toning or enhancing your innate detoxification in both phase one and phase two through the liver. So your body just gets better at doing it. That's what I really like about the Beauty Blend. So that's the three beauty berries of the Taoist system, the longan berry, beautiful chi tonic, beautiful spleen chi tonic which is amazing for digestion. Schizandra, the quintessential herb that is just the beautifying herb, and then goji berries. Well loads of people know goji berries, goji extracts. That's a primary yin, jing nourishing herb at the same time. So we get this line of tonification across the spleen, yin of the spleen through the liver really focusing on the liver. And then dropping down, nourishing the yin, the essence of the kidneys. Very important for foundations. Meanwhile bring greater chi flow, circulation, and vitality through the body, you start to experience more radiance. And this is of course I'm like I'll bang on about these herbs and you know it'll be like oh my gosh, you know I can hear the beauty buzzers now. But this is in correlation with hydration. It's in correlation with sleep. It's in corelation with physical practice and breath work, and all these beautiful things that it fits in there. So at that point, people get to experience not external beauty but really start getting perception of the way their organs brings forth inner radiance and then start feeling what beauty and radiance is specifically to them, not an ambiguous idea of it. So over a five year period, many people watching this have been on the health trip for a long time. And of course, you would've already started your idea of beauty isn't in the women's mags anymore. You have an idea internally of what beauty is and radiance is for you. Beauty Blend is like on that level at the same time helping bring that forth. Because yeah, I love that.

- I love that you called it that for that very specific reason because that is such a big conversation that needs to be had in our culture around turning around what people see as beauty. And then we can begin to connect you know in that way you've just described. That is just absolutely beautiful. I love that.

- Yeah, it's nice. I'm really loving it as well because then we get all the testimonials coming through. You know we get to see people really connecting the fact that their skin starts clearing up, and their hair seems real healthy. And it's like I didn't change anything topically. All of a sudden, that changes you forever when you perceive that you've just been working internally on yourself bringing flow and function. And if you want to get in and like feel your organs which is a huge part of Taoism and Taoist health. And all around the world when you look at holistic systems and the systems that are coming up, getting worked on physically, and we often work on the muscles and the external. You know quite something that's superficial muscle shoulder blades and lower back, amazing. But organ massage, getting in there and really touching your organs and then feeling is there any tension within my organs? That's got a huge correlation to tonic herbalism. And over the years even just starting off and going feeling under your right rib there and feeling your liver, you know? And a lot of people, I know I haven't done it.

- I had to practice that because I wouldn't know what I'm feeling for. But even feeling that, getting that connection and there's this I guess the stimulation that starts to have an effect as well.

- Yeah absolutely. And there's practitioners. I mean, again, like I used to do a lot of this in yoga. My Fiance Tahnee is a chi nei tsang practitioner, a Taoist abdominal massage practitioner. And it's like you know I'm kind of chi nei tsang. I absolutely love it, but at times, it's gonna be love/hate because when you've got like an elbow sitting right there in the middle of your belly getting rid of there nerve tangle that you've had there for years. I'm grateful that I've done a lot of ground work in my physical practice and the herbs because I've been peeling away tension. It's a huge part of it. Just having softness and suppleness. And this is why I keep on saying years and why I keep on saying decades because I wanna bring it into context. The mind want to grab onto that result. And luckily we get it a lot of the time. You know with herbs, we get like you know real quick feeling of energy you know chi flowing. And that's great. But it's like when you're getting into anything new, you'll get you know a steep incline in benefits. And then often you get a plateau, but it'll level out a little bit. And then you know you start getting the real good, deep benefits over months and years, you start accumulating benefits. As long as you keep going and keep on learning more about your body as well, just make sure that your herbal practice and all your lifestyle practice stays relevant to where you wanna go in life. Not where the health scene you know is just pointing you because it's trendy.

- Yeah, what's trendy.

- Exactly, so yeah. They're adaptable. I'm trying to take 'em out of like as much as possible this like, oh I'll ride the wave of the trend. I'm gonna make sure they're not on a pedestal ever. There's like a very humble place about how to do the lifestyle. Hopefully you can stay there for decades.

- So what are some other things that can really support the body whether it's other herbs, you've mentioned breath work, yoga, and you know all sorts of different things. But I guess what are those main things that you know that people can kind of check off to some degree?

- Yeah, if we quickly check 'em off--

- It doesn't work that way, does it?

- I think the thing I like about the check off is that it works in there short term. And then the idea is to embody it.

- It's lifestyle. It's changing your lifestyle.

- It is. And I think you know the getting a list of things to do has got a bad wrap. I especially didn't appreciate it because I kind of really ensconced myself in that world of just like I've got it all perfect. Why am I still having negative feelings towards myself? Why don't I feel amazing on like a soul level? I'm so healthy. You know I'm ticking all the boxes, you know? And you hit that massive glass ceiling when it comes to health. So mushrooms for example say are really great for immunity. And so in the beginning if someone's got a deficient immune system, you know we can just go all right, cool. You're taking this for your immune system. You know just tick it off everyday that you're having your mushies. But the idea is to just do that long enough that that pattern of using them becomes an unconscious pattern. You don't have to think about it so much, so you start to embody the practice. So it's like physical practice. Like you have to go and move your lymph everyday. Or you need to you know like research this that you need to exercise vigorously for 30 minutes three to four times a week, and then you get these results. That's great in the beginning, but then you've gotta make sure that 'cause you can lose out of steam. You'll lose out like that external steam. And so you need to make sure that you roll with that. Don't get disheartened that you're not wanting to go to that boot camp you know which maybe on another level isn't doing great things for your adrenals or you knees you know? But then just slowly work how you're going to embody that practice of moving your lymphatic tissue whether it's like I just came from Sunrise Beach and went for an hour body surf. You know I was just out there with my flippers just kicking around, moving. I didn't even have to think about it. You know find that passion. Eventually make it fun, your kind of fun, not an external kind of fun. Think about how am I going to stay hydrated? Let's just like put it into context. It's gonna be the rest of your life, but think about how am I gonna do this for the next 20 years? You're gonna have to, no matter where you're at whatever like it doesn't have to be 20 years. It could be a year. So that we can do that longterm, and so that that hydration comes off being something that you need to check off the list, a chore, and stays really exciting. And the thing is get ready for your motivation to change. Remember you've got decades and decades and decades. That's why we don't get really attached to one health system. It's why we don't get attached to one type of diet, that we don't get attached to one kind of motivation for the reason we're getting healthy. It's an external identification. It will put a massive glass ceiling on you. That's why I really encourage people to stay slippery and consistently tuning it. Say slippery of the mind, consistently tuning. That's why soft, internal, mediative practice is important to have a little tune-in, no agenda. Just so we can touch base with what intention is coming through at a particular time. So in that sense, the hydration stays relevant in something that we do over those decades. Getting our lungs nice and toned with deep breaths, right? Like you know a good breath practice that really hits home for us and impacts our lives. You know impacts the way that ensure that we're not getting palpitations. You know that might be one reason that really like lands in there for you. Of just makes it so that you, actually you realize I don't have to think about my breath everywhere. It's always real deep, and it's always real nourishing because you've got that breath practice that really, really motivates you. Sunshine, you know making sure that you've got--

- Yeah, it's huge.

- It's huge. It's such a huge piece. You know really get excited about not putting chemicals on your skin. Do get excited about not putting chemical sunscreens on your skin. But then ensuring that you don't get stuck in the ah sunscreens and all that are bad. How can, you know the sun's just amazing. You should get as much sun as possible. No get real about how your skin interacts with the sun. Do some cleaning of your skin. Get that brushing of you skin going on so that it can breath. We know that it does breath. There is gaseous exchange, is exchange of gasses through the skin. It is a living, breathing organism. It needs to be treated that way, you know with nontoxic applications and lotions. Only putting on things that you would eat. You know your skin is eating it up. Then just making sure that you're in the sun, and you're soaking up in like you know however you skin wants to, a huge part of it. And obviously, diet, making sure that you know just like, again, I would recommend not identifying with any particular name of a diet. It's always one that's just gonna get a hook in people if they identify with one type of community. So stay slippery on that. Keep up your fiber. Know who grows your food. Grow a little bit of your own food. Make sure that there's like beautiful herbs, you know culinary herbs. You know maybe some you've grown, maybe you decide go and get parsley from the community garden, oregano from the community garden. Weave that into your diet.

- Herbs are so powerful, aren't they?

- They're huge.

- There's so much in herbs.

- So huge, and it's nice to see them. I don't know they've always been there in like the mother, grandma vibes of the kitchen. But I feel like what's coming back now. A friend of mine, she's Italian. She's Australian Italian, she's like in with these three kids, and she just had like a similar thing she just like reminded of was just like you know people aren't having just like as much of pesto or a chimichurri, like a pure herb based dish or condiment sitting there anymore that just has that power of the herbs that are culinary herbs that's been grown in your local area as well, very useful.

- Yeah, we'll actually we'll get a whole lot of produce from Shambala. So they're a bio-dynamic farm in the area. And I'll get parsley, coriander, mint, and whatever else is available. And if I don't use that at the end of the week, I'll make a juice and just stick it all in the juice. And it just feels so good having that juice and getting in those really you know dense nutrition herbs.

- Yeah, that's so magic. Yeah, I love it. And gonna say passionate as well. You gotta have your passion projects, and then this is where it's nice over years as well. Give yourself, and be lenient, give yourself like two years, five years, 10 years to adjust and bend the lifestyle and the trajectory of your you know into your lifestyle but especially your personal culture, your family culture, nice and gentle. These things take time, but bend it, transform it so that the passion is infused. You know you don't have to separate you know work, passion, and family time.

- Yeah, incorporate that into all of those things.

- Yeah, and it's a nice balance. That's heavy reductionism to have those parts of your life kind of separated. And at the same time, we don't want to like on the other extreme a full amalgamation, full like holistic system in a sense. We want like somewhere in the middle that we're like it is holistic in a sense, but there are somewhat separate parts of your life, but they're integrated. They're integrated. They're not opposing. And passion can be infused into your life. So I kinda like put out, I'd set down that intention that you go to like wherever you're at just like further, but keep going. Keep going, lay down those foundations for yourself.

- Awesome. Wow, I love that. Yeah, the whole diet or the shoulds, or all of that. Like it really needs to come back to what do you feel to do? What do you feel connected to? Not doing it 'cause you should. Sometimes we start things because we should. I need to exercise. I should exercise, but that can lead into something that you really enjoy doing. And making it that more intuitive process. So if you had your different mushrooms, you go oh feeling like that today. And make that part of your everyday life. And that's how we really essentially get or help get connected to ourselves by moving through that life that way. You know rather than the list of shoulds.

- Yeah, well said. And hey, if you find yourself saying should, who cares? Say should. You know the amount of times I'm like, oh Mason, no but I should. Oh no, I shouldn't say should. Or like how do even say that? It's just like back and forth internally torn. It's just like say should, make some sense, whatever, until it's embodied. And you'll say should about something else. And that's gonna be awhile until you've embodied that and you would've moved on. Maybe at some point, the should will just like disappear on its own accord.

- Yeah, yeah. Awesome. I'd love to touch on sustainability 'cause I know that you have real integrity with the products that you bring, you know with your mushroom mixes and with SuperFeast. And also, you work with I guess different farmers who, again, sustainability is part of that process.

- Yeah, I mean like well from the herbs perspective, we're looking, I source from trying to where the Taoist tonic herbs come from because that's where the tradition and the roots are. And it's the only place we're gonna find 500, 600 some herbs instances 700 years in like tradition of that industry becoming semi wild crafted or somewhat farmed in a way that the herbs have stayed connected to the wild so that those herbs can then be shared with the greater population. Because a lot of them being somewhat rare were only held for emperor, his court, their concubines, and so it was just like you know not available. And so we're coming off the back, a sustainable mindset is realizing that we're coming off the back of huge efforts all over the world. In this instance, through the Orient, through China to even make those available to the population because you're gonna get pushback if you wanna do that because there's gonna be like classes that go oh my gosh and all of a sudden they all get these same, the shen nourishing herbs. You know it's not gonna be ours anymore. So that hole had to go down. And so we're running off the back of that. And so I like tuning into that tradition. I like trying to get sustainable. With that much history and experience comes knowing the land and knowing how to not tax the land and deplete the land. And not you know that's the hand that feeds you, the nature hand that feeds you, right? Just even knowing and having appreciation. One, I wanna keep the tradition going. Two, I don't wanna burn this bridge. We've gotta keep is sustainable so we can keep on going for future generations. So that's there. And then I mean in terms of we like putting them in miron jars, ultraviolet glass jars. They're such good quality jars that you've just gotta reuse 'em.

- I love that.

- You can't throw 'em out, more way, you know? I mean then you blow it out. Being sustainable, I could go into the conversation of plastics and you know all like you're seeing insane amount of unused plastic that we're using. It's a huge unconscious. You know we're just unconsciously churning through you know like plastic, plastic, plastic, plastic, plastic. But I'm not one to put pressure on and say go completely plastic free because I'm not there yet.

- Noosa's actually going plastic bag free which is awesome.

- Like in the supermarket, like plastic bagging?

- Yeah.

- Awesome, it's so good. These little steps that are going on.

- It is because we get a bit lazy. We go, "Oh I should take that bag in with me." And it may be sitting in the car, but we just don't get around to it. And then when we're forced to do it, then it becomes a habit.

- Yeah, that becomes a habit. And then we've gotta be smart. Look it would be nice. It's nice to be thinking, come on everybody. It's so easy. And we like get it like all you have to do is just take your own bags. And all you have to do is go to this store or not. But again, it takes time to alter our culture. And as long as we make sure that we you know stay motivated, not getting angry about these kinds of things. At the same time, just look at that plastic use. I wouldn't put too much pressure just because that's not sustainable in a lifestyle or mindset. You know just that right amount of pressure, you can start making decisions just so you become a little bit more sustainable in that sense. And that will get you further into the rhythm of the earth. You know the more it's not like I'm not dangling a reward like with your off plastics, you're gonna get more from you know from nature. But just in terms of just the way your lifestyle is flowing, you just consistently have that little bit of attention on the fact that you're not using these resources that are really depleting the oceans and like really screwing it up. It does put you more back in the natural flow. And over the longterm, you're gonna get some richness out of that. So that comes to sustainability in your mindset and your emotions. Make sure that you're gonna be able to be with yourself and the way you're approaching health and your life for the rest of your life. That's a huge starting point as far as I'm concerned. And then kind of what we're talking about in making sure that you're changing or transforming personal lifestyle and personal culture, just the way your life looks over the longterm so that passion's infused. At the same time, make sure sustainability is coming in in terms of how much energy you have to be putting into work. Like how much energy you're having to put into the home, all these things, travel time, all these kinds of things. Just look at that longterm because make sure you're not depleting your jing in the longterm. Really make sure it's sustainable on that level. Again, it's not putting the pressure on, but you know put that right amount of attention on it. Every now and then, you get a rush of inspiration, and you'll change a lot. Make sure that's sustainable. And then cool, and then cool, slow it down. Lock that into your lifestyle. Maybe it's a career change. You know maybe it's changing where you move so that it's more in alignment with what your body and your organs and your family's organs are gonna really need in the longterm, and their minds and their emotions. And generally, the bloody enjoyment of life. And I'd say that's like a huge aspect of sustainability, massive aspect.

- Yeah, I love that. Sustainability is in all areas of our life. It's not just looking after the earth, it's what sustainable for us in our lives. And yeah, you know.

- Well we are the earth, you know? We're on it. We're a part of nature, yep.

- Yeah, moving forward I just, yeah it's beautiful to see what is opening up especially with the younger generation around this and a lot more conscious choices.

- Diet in society varies a lot of times.

- Well I've got some quick curious questions for you.

- Cool, yeah.

- However is it--

- Music cues.

- Is there anything else you'd like to share just around the mushrooms?

- Cool, the mushrooms and the herbs, try 'em out. I mean a lot of the time it's like which one do I take? I mean there's so many. The blends are a great place to start. Go immunity, unity, mushrooms. You know in general if you just love the mushies, the sound of it, the magic of them, you know mushrooms. Core energy, Jing. Brain, like memory, cognitive power, Neural Nectar. Or it's that radiance you know a bit more of that vitality, need the help detox, Beauty Blend. But really it's kind of with herbs, it's like any of 'em. Try any of 'em. We've got all of the individual herbs as well at SuperFeast. It's like just try one. I just wanna like throw that out there and just like have fun with it.

- Yeah, actually you sell MSM on your website.

- Yeah, it's kinda like I love MSM, but it's like the thorn in my side of my OCD brain because it's like the aftermath of when I was selling like other supplements and all those kinds of things when I started. And then just like cut the fat and got right down into tonic herbalism, and then SuperFeast focused on that. But every time I tried to kind of like shake MSM which is a mineral. Methylsulfonylmethane, sulfar, beauty mineral, phase two liver detoxification, dissolving bad calcium deposits that cause aging, making the cell membrane more permeable so nutrients are getting in, toxins are getting out. Amazing detoxifier.

- That's just easy to put in water because I remember I used to put MSM in water. Now I just put Himalayan sea salt or lemon. But I guess MSM has some other qualities.

- MSM's huge. It's such a toxic world. It's one of those, I'm not supplement crazy. But it's one that's just stuck around. I've been taking it for like seven years. And a little bit on and off, but I feel so wonderful on it. And it's just one of those minerals. It's like taking iodine. I just probably won't stop supplementing it.

- Because they don't have it in any food really.

- Yeah, so I'm not eating enough seafood to get my iodine. There aren't bloody enough oysters. So iodine, MSM. SO yeah, MSM kind of every time I try to move that out of the range. Everyone's like, "No." I'm like but it's only tonic herbs. And everyone's like, I've got my medicinal mushrooms and MSM. I love it. MSM, warm lemon water with Beauty Blend in it with a little bit of honey, pinch of sea salt, stir that up. That's like a beauty lemonade, like beauty, detox lemonade. It'll change your life. Like warm lemon water with your honey and lemon, and you can put a bit of ginger in there if you want. MSM, the methylsulfonylmethane, it's sulfur, that beauty mineral, Beauty Blend, a pinch of sea salt. Stir that up. Amazing warm morning tonic.

- Actually while we're talking about this, we do work with hotels. And I would love to see mushroom elixirs, tonics, lattes, whatever it is, in hotels.

- That'd be so good. That'd be so amazing.

- Yes, to offer guests as a new experience because people are primed for new experiences when they're on their holidays. They want to try new things. So let's just start with relaxation. Again, what would be a nice tonic that could be made up either by the hotel or by guests if they had the right products?

- Yeah, well I mean reishi like for sure. Reishi, camomile, to an extent even the medicinal mushrooms. They're working on the nervous system and the endocrine system, so the hormones. Making sure that they come back into balance. Generally, it's gonna come back into balance. It's gonna become calmer.

- Beautiful.

- And Jing for travelers. Travel depletes you. It depletes your core essence, your primordial energy, your genetic expression, and that's jing. Generally, it's just feeling fatigued as well you know when you're jing depleted. That's an amazing tonic.

- I want some Jing there.

- Yeah, we all need some Jing. Then there's like Jing, hot water, a bit of honey or whatever, you know whatever's free there.

- Yeah, just as simple like that, yeah. Just mixing it with yeah, okay. And also, a lot of our hotels especially in the cities have you know busy executives. They want to be on fire for meetings and things like that. What would you recommend, introduce about like a corporate meeting or something like that? What would be a great drink to serve everyone?

- Yeah, that's a good one. So many directions there. I'd probably just go with the Jing or the Mason's, you know? The flavors, you know Neural Nectar, wonderful. The rhodiola has that little bit of a flavor tinge to it, so you're gonna know you're drinking Neural Nectar. Not that it's bad. Mason's and Jing just like mix in so easily to whatever you're having. And so if the palate's not used to you know like herbaceous you know elixir. Executives are go, go, go generally. And so Jing nourish that essence, mushrooms, all around immunity, all around making sure that that nervous systems been toned, endocrine system's got what it needs to adapt that kind of balance.

- Beautiful, and then you could throw them into coffees as well and mix it that way if you want that extra bit of caffeine which you know they really do.

- That's not pie in the sky anymore. It's like we've got firms and you know executives and CEOs smashing these herbs. We're not pushing up hill anymore, and I'm not a push up hill kind of business. In all these different pockets, I'm never trying to get into the CrossFit community. I'm like if it happens, it happens. And sure enough I've got two like Australian, big hitters into CrossFit. Like two of the biggest hitters you can probably go and find. They stumbled across it in their own right, and they got in contact. And now they're smashing the herb and getting beautiful results. And now they're sport becomes a little bit more sustainable. Got NRL footie players contacting me about it. Models all over the world, all over Europe send it out to Milan. Trying like he was asking me what to get her. Like Beauty Blend, tremella mushroom, the beauty mushroom. It's like more effective than hyaluronic acid bringing moisture to the skin, moisture to the lungs. That's another medicinal mushroom. We won't go down that rabbit hole, but tremella's an incredible one for skin health and radiance and beauty. Having them be in hotels, I'm like yeah that'll happen.

- Yeah, I believe it will.

- It'll be relevant whether it's in the bar. And you know they might incorporate them into cocktails.

- Oh my God, that's a whole different, well that is awesome.

- Yeah, I'm the ex-bartender. Worked at Opera Bar in Sydney, and you know Water Bar. And you know all these kind of places.

- Oh my God, you're gonna have to make a little recipe and send it through and share it.

- They're coming. They're coming. We'll open that experience.

- Awesome. It is. As you say, it's just like you know them sitting there you know just like for people to you know have in their coffees in the morning. They can order a little black coffee and a hotel whips it up, probably gonna be the best way to start rather then them going oh what do I do with this thing? And people putting wet spoons in there. You know like the cafe, you know when you think about like, for sure. Ordering that off, you get, oh my gosh this hotel. I'm exhausted. I'll just go and find, oh my gosh, Jing herbs.

- See I believe with these you need a little explanation around that goes you know until people become more aware of them and what they're good for, I think that's just a beautiful thing to offer your guests. It could even be a signature piece at your hotel. You know just to come in and relax and have you know a beautiful mushroom latte, or you know a mushroom cocktail. Mix a cocktail that's you know super good for you and super nourishing.

- Oh yeah, even like schizandra margaritas like taste so good.

- Wow.

- Schizandra in the margarita is always. It's got like a bit of sass to it. Schizandra is a wonderful tasting berry. Mushroom coffees and mushroom lattes, again, it's so in the lexicon not of just the hardcore health community now. It's really hit mainstream. Again, if you're a boutique hotel or even like a hotel that just prides itself on like being a little bit cutting edge. Or not even being cutting edge, just offering what you think would be the best for your guests.

- Well there's that next level of care, isn't it?

- Yeah, it is.

- It's just thinking about it more. Like what is really going to you know help their health. It's coming at it from that really helpful place.

- Yeah, I think so. I think you'd find out people would appreciate it whether they know about it or not, and they need to like read up a little bit. They'd appreciate it for sure.

- We went down to Melbourne recently, and we went to our little haunts. You know we go to little organic cafes, and we tried lots of different mushroom lattes.

- Oh cool.

- So it's out there. But yeah, I would love to see it more so.

- Oh yeah, me too. That'd be so much fun.

- All right, so I've got some of these quick Q's, questions.

- Q-cy Q's, let's go.

- Yeah, what is your favorite elixir at the moment?

- An elixir that I make for myself. I kind of always hot chocolate with tramella mushroom. I add in there. It's fully a mushroom extract, but it acts as a creamer. So I put tramella in there with cacao, really good Ecuadorian cacao, some butter, some whey concentrate, again nice and creaminess. It makes it really marshmallowy. You know some grass fed whey. Then I'm gonna layer in at the moment chaga mushroom. It's a big black mushroom that grows on birch, highly immunological, really amazing for protecting DNA, toning pineal, also protecting the skin, high melanin content. That's the pigment that we have when we tan, that's the melanin. So it's probably for me it's like that chaga and that tramella, butter, whey, and then you can just sea salt,cacao, and then a bit of hot water just blend that up and drink that down. That's what I would say.

- Wow, that sounds gorgeous.

- Yeah, it's incredible.

- That's how I feel about my coffee in the morning. So, oh yum. And you explain it someone, and they go ugh 'cause I like to throw an egg in there as well to give it that frothiness and creamyness.

- Oh nice, on yeah.

- People are like, oh. But it's actually so delicious and so yummy.

- Yeah, the egg would be a hard one for people to get their heads around.

- You can just say to them you know like you've had an amaretto sour before. That's just egg whites, baby. That's just frothing it up.

- Yeah, I love the frothy, creamy goodness. It's just beautiful.

- Yeah nice.

- So what's your favorite podcast or book at the moment?

- Yeah, I'm not really listening to any podcasts at the moment 'cause I'm working on a new one, on my own.

- Awesome.

- But book-wise I'm getting stuck into a book called Power of the Five Elements by Charles Moss. Really good book if you are interested in the organs, and the five element theory. But a real, like meaty sink your teeth into like relevant to your life and your constitution. How do I understand the way chi moves through the body and through the organs on the power of five elements.

- Nice. Well I know that some people will go, "I can't have mushrooms because I've got "a yeast infection," or something like that.

- Good question. When that was kind of laid down, I think it started becoming something that's regurgitated in the health scene after, I can't remember the doctor's name, but he wrote PH Miracle. He said if you got candida, if you got cancer, can't have mushrooms, blanket statement. Didn't know what reishi was, didn't know what chaga was, didn't know what medicinal mushrooms were. He was talking about round mushrooms. Those mushrooms that grow in soil portabellos, buttons. Now that's one type of mushroom you can classify. Then there's psychedelic mushrooms. We're not talking about either of those here. We're talking about medicinal mushrooms. Quite often and pretty much all of the time except for cordyceps, it's a parasitic mushroom, it's going to growing off a tree living or deadwood tree. And so those are super effective in candida and fungal infections. Anywhere there's an immune deficiency, it's going to be useful. And as a herb, I used big doses. You know like I got to eight teaspoons a day up to tablespoons a day of chaga and reishi when I started out. And it was really, really helped me like getting on top of that fungal infection.

- Wow, that is really good information. Wow, awesome.

- Yeah, it's a good one. Thanks for asking it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had someone ask me about that. And I went okay, cool that's pretty good.

- Yeah, awesome.

- What has been a lesson that took you the longest to learn, but when you learnt it, it was awesome to go through it.

- Yeah I mean like having a business is like a massive clip on the ear like all the time. And so I'm like really offered theories. You know I'm a bit more on the creative side. And so it took me awhile not to just be constantly going for that next huge thing. I'm like cool, national tour. Let's throw the world's biggest cacao party. You know like no wait, let's release all these products at one time without having the actual foundations in place the last three years. Especially when we started having a baby on the way, you know and that obviously this lesson is definitely multidimensional.

- You continue to learn and grow.

- Absolutely, but laying solid foundations, being humble having patience as you're growing something. Have a lot of patience. Stay fully with an integrity. And also, it's cliche, but I'm learning it. Just keep on rocking it your way. You know make sure, and in business, you know it can be in family, but like in business as well make sure you are sleeping like a baby every night. That's been really you know what making decisions and thinking do I really want my life to be like, to be like if I make that decision, it seems good on the the surface and maybe it is. But really think about what kind of lifestyle you're gonna have in and around that. And just be like is it just my ego wanting to dominate or something like that? Or you know is this really fulfilling? Is this like really like I feel part of like my passion, and that's really helped me. I feel like I'm learning that. Growing up in that sense, and just like taking it nice and slow. And to not feel like I'm missing out on anything.

- Yeah, wow, that's a huge one to learn, isn't it?

- It's huge, yeah. It's really huge. I don't know how many years you kind of like hit the paintbrush over it. You're just like, "Well I'll just keep "going, going, going, going, going. "I can't not do that. "I'm gonna miss out on that opportunity." And you never arrive anywhere. You know with enough self inquiry or enough like life like throwing you and smashing you down to the ground, like inquire. You're gonna learn that ideally that doesn't happen by doing that kind of self inquiry you know practice like meditation or whatever that is for us it's surfing. Where we can tune in and just endogenously know that for ourselves, so kinda learning that.

- Oh well, that leads beautifully into the next question of you know what are the things that you do to get aligned, so to set a tone for your day, you know to come back to you and continue to create from that place?

- Yeah, good question. You know time with my daughter definitely one at the moment. I feel like it's nice we get so much time to spend with her and with my partner as well. So Tahnee and Aiya really feeling like you know that life is revolving around that. I don't know. Just like that heart, that beating heart of the life book running together. That's like massively grounding me. Body surfing, huge one for me. And kind of like you know just constantly trying to get that little pocket of time. You know it's one of those things that I've, not struggled with, but in having that half an hour where I go, I just sit on my ass, and I just get in there without agenda. And I sit, and I go in, and I feel. And I look internally. It's so transformational for me. It always is. It is for everybody. And that is definitely one. You know those three are really kind of helping me get tuned in.

- Wow, that's beautiful. And do you call that meditation, or just call be--

- Yeah meditation, yeah I think that's ample course, yeah.

- And do you like to do that in the morning? Do you feel that that really changes you and begins to set the day almost? Do you feel the shift--

- Yeah, I'm a night meditator. So I'm up in the morning. Like it's not always like this, but you know in the morning ideally if I'm up early enough especially before Aiya wakes up. I'll jump on my mini trampoline, the Rebounder. Between intervals, I'll do a lot of my tension release or my dynamic stretching. I work with my friend Benny Ferguson, the Movement Monk. Amazing to me bringing flexibility through my fascial tissue and releasing tension through my spine. It's a real, beautiful foundational practice for me. And so going back with kettle bell training. And then from there, possibly the standing meditation is something that I enjoy with my practice, and it's something I've learnt from Benny as well. And then ideally I jump in my infrared sauna. So the Clearlight infrared sauna and get some time in there. And then after that, go and give my skin a little bit of scrub with bicarbon vodka. And that's like my morning in the flow. And then half an hour before bedtime, as you can imagine when I'm on the road, it's not always happening.

- I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- That's like is my ideal date. If I get it in once or twice a week, I'm kinda like I'm tight, you know, I'm tuned.

- Oh, that's awesome. Going to bed in a great state of being is just massive.

- It's huge. Yeah, I really like it. And that's just something I've tried meditating in the morning for years. It was my standing meditation like my physical practice, my sort of internal physical practice, that was enough for me to get dynamically tuned into the day in the morning.

- Ah beautiful. How important is purpose to you for overall happiness and fulfillment?

- Huge. As well purpose, I've had to make sure that I stay slippery with what purpose means. And it's absolutely massive again like you know making sure that what I'm doing is you know making sure I'm really sleeping well at night. Ensuring that I feel when I'm contributing to myself and the community and the world, huge part. You know and I kind of in the middle of having SuperFeast, you know, sometimes like I lost that feeling of purpose. And that was okay as well to kind of like you know know that I had to change the way that I was approaching it. I was kind of a little bit like spiritual scene raji dodgy, but you know about what purpose was. It was quite external and quite like, I don't know it felt like modeling in a way. And so I had to you know stick it out. Just keep on going, keep on doing what I love. You know keep on tweeting, make sure I'm feeling like I'm integrity, saying what I do, you know? And then emerging is the feeling of purpose which is much more endogenous than something external I just write on a piece of paper kind of captured.

- That is awesome. It really is because that's essentially what it is you know at the end of the day. We don't know like, but we can sense it. We can feel it, and then begin to play with it.

- Yeah, absolutely, and then you play. Like that purpose conversation can especially be coming like you know particularly hard core spiritual traditions, it can be hijacked really quick. And then all of a sudden, you're just like external like you know just fighting, you know sacrificing itself.

- It's the journey of life though, isn't it? We're gonna have to do this, do this, and mental experience it.

- That's all good as well. That's a beautiful experience. It'll get you tuned in. Help give you another perspective. You got that other perspective. You embody it, you move on. Stay slippery enough to move on.

- So is there any other question that I haven't asked that you'd like to share that's a really nice message?

- To tell you the truth, we've probably got a lot of it. You know we've got like really beautifully deep here. I feel like one thing that's been coming through is one of relevance and ensuring that we acknowledge that we're all living, although we're in somewhat close proximity here. Like even here in Noosaville or within a Western culture, there's correlations. You know we're creating very unique personal cultures and family cultures. Make sure that the way you're approaching health is very relevant to you. You know just gotta guard that sovereignty.

- Oh that's beautiful, beautiful. Oh, thank you so much.

- Thank you so much.

- I've love this conversation so much.

- Yeah, me too. It was so much fun. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning in today. Now time to take that information, round it into your lifestyle so you can amplify your health to the next level. You can really help amplify the health of this podcast by going onto iTunes and subscribing and leaving us a review. It really helps us spread this information around tonic herbs, around sovereign health further out there to the community so we can help more people experience the best out of this life. Thanks guys, I'll speak to you next time.