Semen Retention with Taylor Johnson (EP#46)

Mason: (00:04)

Taylor, welcome to the podcast man.

 

Taylor: (00:06)

Thanks for having me, happy to be here.

 

Mason: (00:09)

So, can you just say a quick g'day to everyone, let them know what you're up to with your life and in the world?

 

Taylor: (00:16)

Yeah, absolutely. Hey, everybody, thanks for listening. My name is Taylor. I am a sex educator and a consultant for men primarily, and I help men do things like overcome premature ejaculation and master their sexual energy and be able to put it into whatever they want in their life.

 

Mason: (00:34)

Yes, sweet.

 

Taylor: (00:35)

[crosstalk 00:00:35] version.

 

Mason: (00:36)

Man, I really like that. That's nice and succinct, and that's something that normally doesn't happen on this podcast. But you know what, you're refined and you're refining sexual energy. So no wonder you're able to actually refine your vocabulary into something potent. It's all macrocosm, microcosm stuff.

 

Taylor: (00:53)

Working on it. It's a practice, you know, it's a practice.

 

Mason: (00:56)

So I really wanted to have you on this conversation. Being Brovember we're talking about men's health. SuperFeast, the people listening to community here, are aware that we're looking at a very ancient system when it comes to the herbalism being the Taoist common herbs. We're looking at how we can very sustainably with respect and with, responsibly take something that's got such an ancient lineage and make that relevant to modern times, and that's why I put that respect there. So we're actually respecting the roots, and we kind of stay within that frame, but then how do we actually bring that relevance where these things like these sexual practices or even the fact that you take Taoist tonic herbs or do Taoist sexual practices or tantric practices. How do we not bring it over so it doesn't just get caught up into an egoic identity, which I think happens a lot? Sometimes you get into these communities. I remember when I got into the yogic community, it was like out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

Taylor: (01:55)

Right? Yeah. How do you make it practical so you don't have to spend months and months and years, [inaudible 00:02:00], these techniques that you may or might not use. This talk about in conversation to like prove your worth or something, like grounded and practical and real, that's what I'm all about.

 

Mason: (02:11)

Ground and practical and real, absolutely. And that relevance. I mean, I was talking to you about it because like we're going to go into multiple orgasms for men. We want to go into the retention of ejaculate, and how these conversations are actually going to be relevant to a modern man and in a modern relationship, and I was chatting to you about it. I'm kind of arriving at this point where I'm feeling really nice about approaching this practice in my own life. It's kind of feeling like, I'm not chasing anything, I'm not kind of not really coming to these practices anymore from that seeking or looking to mend a pattern that I picked up when I was a kid or in my teenage years, around where my own sexuality.

 

Mason: (03:01)

I've kind of done a lot of inner work, a lot of psychological work, psychos, just getting into it, just trying to be, whether that's around stories I had around my own cock from porn. The shame I had around my cock from stories I'd made up by being, getting changed with other boys, couple of experiences when I was a teenager, and then again, probably watching porn and being like, "Hang on. I'm coming way too quick so I should probably go to Taoist sexual practices and be able to hold my come, so I don't feel embarrassed or self-conscious when I'm in the bedroom."

 

Mason: (03:38)

I felt like that's been quite insidious for me coming out. I've gotten to that point where I've been on the precipice of being able to really do these retention practices and then gone, years ago and gone, "You know what, I'm not coming at this from the right reasons. I'm really trying to mend something that should come from a little bit more internal psychological, alchemical, spiritual place." But now I'm really feeling like I'm arriving with a clean slate. So I'd just like to hear your take and your experience on how you personally arrived in these practices, these sexual practices, if you've got any little caveats or advice for guys who are approaching it.

 

Taylor: (04:24)

Yeah. Thank you. I'm curious to hear more about what you're experiencing right now too maybe in a little bit. But for me, This has been, I guess ,this has been a curiosity for me, sex, since I was a teenager, right? Sex and also those deeper energetic realms of spirituality and yoga and meditation, Qi Gong and that sort of stuff. From a young age I was interested in those things and I pursued yogic practice, I did yoga teacher trainings, I did the silent meditation retreats, I studied different religions. At the same time in this different compartment of my life, there was sex, and I was fascinated by it.

 

Taylor: (05:00)

I was super attracted to women, super curious about sex, and at the same time, all these practices that I was studying around spirituality and energy, none of them ever mentioned sex. In fact, there was almost like an anti-sex attitude in a lot of those things. And it felt like this really strange disconnect in my body and in my mind, and heart and spirit. At a certain point, I had discovered a book, I believe it's called Sexual Energy Ecstasy. It's a blue book, I don't remember exactly. It was like 12 years ago, and it gave me this idea that you could actually mix yoga and intention and presence with sex. It was this like, the beginning of a process of merging those two worlds for me that has been a sort of lifelong journey since then. But that was a really catalyzing moment, like a huge lightbulb went off in my head because there was so much programming around sex not being spiritual and sex not being good, and sex pushing it to the side, that it was beautiful to experience that coming together.

 

Taylor: (06:08)

And so fast forward a little bit. I started to try those practices and I regularly struggled with premature ejaculation during that time. So it was a little extra motivation to dive more deeply into that. I tried it a bunch, I tried it a bunch, I had some successes and then I noticed that it started to make me feel like, "Oh, yeah. I'm a sex master." I got this all figured out and it got to my ego and got to my head, I guess sort of similar to what you were saying. There was a certain point where I had to take a step back, because at the same time, I was struggling with porn addiction, yada, yada, yada. Fast forward to now, I feel like I've come into a much more balanced place with things too. I just skipped a bunch of stuff in the story, but I'll pause there to see. You looked like you had a little hand motion.

 

Mason: (06:57)

Yeah. I mean, if we quickly go over the practices because I'm sure we've got men and women listening who haven't read like the Sexual Mastery for Men book by Mantak Chia, haven't been in that world of looking in Taoist multiple orgasms. However, if we can just have a quick little look at what those classic exercises are. You're kind of like talking about the squeezing the PC muscle.. I remember when I, like Mantak's just like, his books are just written the way he talks. Mantak is a Taoist practitioner and teacher everybody. You might have heard Tahnee talk about him. Tahnee's gone and learned at his Tao Garden in Chiang Mai.

 

Taylor: (07:45)

Chiang Mai.

 

Mason: (07:46)

So she wrote the Chi Nei Tsang, the Daoist's abdominal massage and it's an absolute weapon. But his books are just like, "Okay, you're squeezing the PC muscle 500 times a day. Just when you're in the car, you just sit there and you're just squeezing them. Like that feeling when you're holding, and you need to wee really bad and you need to squeeze that muscle. Do that 500 times a day, and that's the first step." And you decide, "Okay, it's a bit ambiguous."

 

Taylor: (08:09)

Yeah, very mechanical and very dry honestly. I didn't make it through his book in entirety. I've experienced great success without reading that entire book. So just for anyone out there, there are other ways to get there that might feel a little more heart centered or warm, or at least less mechanical and engineering like. [crosstalk 00:08:27]. Just speak to that one piece you said, the PC muscle thing. I think this is a really important thing to talk about. Because all over the internet right now if you look for how to last longer in bed, or how to overcome premature ejaculation, pretty much the majority of what's out there immediately is PC muscle exercises, "Squeeze this. Squeeze this. Strengthen that. Strengthen that."

 

Taylor: (08:48)

But a big problem with that is, when's the last time you or anybody went to the gym for 40 days in a row and did 200 squats every day for 40 days without stretching or without taking a break, right? That would create a problem in your body, that would create a problem in my body. I wouldn't be able to walk well after that, maybe not even after day four. I need a rest day. I need to stretch and I would need to counterbalance that. So a problem a lot of guys run into when they start doing PC muscle exercises all the time is they actually put their pelvic floor into a state of tension. Tension often is what causes premature ejaculation. Relaxing that area and being able to relax that is huge. So instead of doing 100 PC muscles exercises every day, like there's some other things you can do like different yoga poses and different stretches and different breathing exercises to bring more spaciousness down there.

 

Mason: (09:45)

Would you mind if we go into that a bit later.

 

Taylor: (09:48)

Yeah, happy to. One other little anecdote. I went to a Tantra workshop in Thailand two years ago, and the instructor asked this room probably full of 100 people, I would say, asked the room to close their eyes and tune into their pelvic floor. For everybody listening, I'm going to invite you to do that too. As long as you're not driving, just close your eyes and notice your pelvic floor. Your pelvic floor is the area around your genitals, in between your genitals and your anus. This is your perineum. And see if there is any amount that you can relax that area of your body at all just even a little bit. Are you holding any little micro tension there, tension at all?

 

Taylor: (10:38)

It was really interesting in this workshop. You can open your eyes now. Because the instructor asked us that question and 90 plus percent of the people raised their hand. I did too. We all had tension there and we could all consciously relax that area of our body. Then the instructor asked us again five minutes later, and still 90 plus percent of the people raised their hand. And so it was this really interesting learning process of "Oh, wow. We're all walking around with a lot of tension in that area of our body. So maybe doing kegel exercises all the time, isn't the only answer.

 

Mason: (11:10)

That comes up in like, I feel like that's what the world's really wanting is in that releasing of tension, that relaxation. Everyone in the West is obviously so Yang. We talked about shiny things we need to strengthen. Even with eye exercises, no one's even getting the sense of like, hang on, there's musculature around there that is super tense and you need to relax. And then you look at the West, everyone's so uptight, especially around the anus, and so that muscle, that PC muscle coming from the pubic bone right around to the coccyx, is like literally tight.

 

Mason: (11:45)

As you're saying, that constant squeezing, squeezing, squeezing, if you got a tight neck, you're going to go and get like ... I'll just be like, "You know what, I'm going to really strengthen my with that muscle right now. This is how ..." You get one of those iron neck things that put a [crosstalk 00:11:58] on your head, "This is going to fix me." It's super obvious, but we've been so ... we've gone down that route of programming ourselves. And of course we're impressionable, and so we take-

 

Taylor: (12:09)

Totally.

 

Mason: (12:10)

Yeah. So like then, what are we doing in ... Let's just go into it now. What is your recommendations rather than just squeezing, and then how do we get a little bit more colour to that conversation and bringing blood flow and Qi down to that pelvic floor?

 

Taylor: (12:28)

Yeah. One of my favorite and most simple exercises to do is deep belly breathing. And you can breathe into your pelvic floor too, and it doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be this great, mysterious mystical thing. You can just take a deep breath down into your belly, into your lower belly, and it literally expands that region of your body. One of my favorite ways to have people do this for their first time, if they're not used to deep belly breathing, is to lay on their back on the ground. And then you can put one hand on your chest and one hand on your lower belly, and try to breathe into that hand that's on your lower belly.

 

Taylor: (13:11)

You'll notice that when you really focus your breath there, and you focus on expanding that part of your body, you can feel expansion in your sacrum, in your lower spine, in your abdomen, in your pelvic floor, and that whole area of your body. If you just slowly breathe into there, it's not a forceful, like get it done sort of thing, but it's a slow, easeful deep breath. That is an amazing, amazing, simple practice.

 

Mason: (13:38)

One thing that when I was first getting into these practices, with good intentions and in some direction just seeking and chasing something, one thing that kind of threw me off was, I was all about the deep breathing. I've grown up around martial arts, and so had that ability to breathe into my belly. And then once I was in the bedroom, once I was having sex and really releasing tension, not realizing how much tension I was actually holding within my PC muscle, in that area around my sexual organs. And naturally physiologically, you release tension, your breath and your fascia is going to be able to bring subtle movement, you're going to get a flow of Qi there.

 

Mason: (14:25)

In the beginning, I became more sensitive. Because despite the fact that I'd had evidence that I didn't really have to worry so much around premature ejaculation, that was still my sexual baggage and story I had about myself. So I actually got a little bit thrown off around how additionally sensitive I was, in the beginning. I just wanted to kind of throw that out there, because that sensitivity is something you want, but then working through that, that kind of somewhat disassociating that just because you get that pleasurable feeling, doesn't mean you're just going to get out of control and come real quick.

 

Taylor: (15:07)

Right.

 

Mason: (15:09)

That was a huge insight for me. Then opening up from you, you were talking about particular stretches, poses. Are you particularly looking at the hip flexor muscle when you're stretching out in through that area? What would you be looking at?

 

Taylor: (15:31)

Well, yes, so they are the more active things, active poses you could do to do active stretching, but one of the ones that I really like is bridge pose, and with your hips up in the air, and your shoulders back on the ground and your feet on the ground. It would be cool if we could flash a diagram of that onto the screen right now. But basically, in that pose, somehow ... I haven't fully studied anatomy and physiology, but somehow the musculature in that pose allows you to relax your pelvic floor, in a way that is really incredible. I haven't experienced that in pretty much any other yoga pose or position. It's like a deep just dropping, deep connection with gravity of your pelvic floor and to feel that ease, it's really remarkable there. That's one for sure.

 

Taylor: (16:20)

And then, yeah, there are generally just stretching your muscles, and your legs, and your hips is also helpful. I'd say, this thing of premature ejaculation, it's more than just learning one technique, or one stretch, or three stretches. Sometimes you have to approach it from 15 different angles, because for a lot of people it's a lifestyle thing. And it's learning to switch over your entire sexual response system from what we've grown up with, and maybe what sort of habits we've built, to a new type of sexual response system. And that takes some time for a lot of people and that's normal.

 

Taylor: (16:53)

I think it's really awesome that you spoke to the piece in the beginning, where you had increased sensitivity at first, because I did too. And I thought, Oh shit. What am I doing? No, no, no, go backwards, go backwards. And then I couldn't go back. But in retrospect, it totally makes sense. I had to deprogram myself from years of watching porn, years of habitual masturbation, years of habitual objectifying of women, and to open myself to those deeper realms of sensitivity. At first it was overwhelming, and eventually that overwhelm can turn into this greater realms of orgasm and pleasure, that don't end in ejaculation.

 

Mason: (17:38)

Before we go into the benefits of that, and why someone would be wanting to bring that into your lives, I'm curious to hear your grounded take, is what's the piece around like, what would you say is something to be ... As you're working on this at the same time or a precursor, in terms of the sexual relationship that you have with yourself, you are cock around self love, all those kinds of things. I just like to hear your take on that.

 

Taylor: (18:09)

Specifically you're asking me what is ... Can you say that again?

 

Mason: (18:14)

Yeah. I'm sorry. Sometimes I do just like dance around a concept, and don't ask a very direct question. Going forth, because I kind of personally feel a huge part has been this like okay, genuine loving relationship with myself, genuine non-shame based sexual relationship with myself is necessary, and feeling this innate forgiveness, and very deep love and appreciation that I do have for myself. I get that that could become a little bit cliche when you're running around these circles. So for you who you're teaching these arts, you're teaching the retention of ejaculate and multiple orgasms, that's the shiny thing. I'm assuming that there is a substance of this, what I'm talking about of like of this self love and healthy relationship. I know, because I've seen it in your videos and you talk to it, but just I wanted to hear directly the fabric of that, of what's surrounding the shiny thing of these multiple orgasms in and around what I was just referring to.

 

Taylor: (19:20)

Yeah. Thank you for that clarification. That makes total sense. Yeah, nobody's going to do a Google search for, "How to self love better." Very few people. But hundreds of thousands of people will search for, "How to overcome premature ejaculation." So it's like, what are people looking for? And how to have them find me or find whoever is going to help them with this issue. Yes, so I run this course called Orgasmic Mastery. It's for men, and a lot of the stuff we've already talked about is in there, and so is this piece of self love and it's really important. For me ... What would I want to say about this?

 

Taylor: (20:02)

I have people approach self pleasuring from like as a practice, incorporating breath, incorporating some exercises, but really trying to be fully present with themselves, not fantasizing about porn, not fantasizing about any partner, but tuning into this sensations that are in their body, the feeling of sheets on their skin, the feeling of warmth or coldness of the air, everything in that present moment, just tuning into those sensations, because that's going to orient you to this deeper presence that's available to you at any given moment. When you start exploring that realm, it's possible that all sorts of stuff come up. You might realize like, Oh my God, when's the last time I took 20 minutes for myself just to give myself pleasure? That can be overwhelming and sad, or beautiful, or happy for some people. It's really sort of like opening Pandora's box of potential for energy there.

 

Taylor: (21:01)

It translates to the rest of your life. It has translated to the rest of my life. The more time I spend in a self pleasure session, versus just like wanking it or trying to get off, the more I walk in the world with my shoulders back, the more I walk in the world with confidence and love, and I exude this deeper presence, and it's because I've been cultivating that. I don't want to come across as I have all this shit figured out and I'm a master of it. Certainly, I'm very much a work in progress still, but I do notice that the more I approach this from a grounded place of self love, the better every area of my life becomes.

 

Mason: (21:41)

That's evident, man, and I like that you've added those caveats. However, the cultivation is evident and it comes from consistency, and the grounded place in which no one was watching all your videos and reading your articles. That's why I was super stoked to have you on the podcast, and there's not many people I'd really want to talk about this with. But I had to talk about, so I was really happy that Elena, ... So everyone like Elena, who is a mate of ours runs Instagram, who has been a family friend for many years, put us on to Taylor's work, and I was like, "Boom. Yeah." That was three days ago and here we are, just awesome, because we needed to get this in for Brovember ASAP. Get it. Yeah. Now, let's go to why we would want to retain come, sperm. Let's look at some of the nuts and bolts of it.

 

Taylor: (22:34)

The nuts and bolts. Great. So why would you want to retain your semen? Why would you want to retain your ejaculate? The first example I'll give is just of long term relationship. Say you're in a long term relationship, and we'll just go ahead and say monogamous for this particular example. For everybody listening, imagine that you're an year and a half into this relationship, maybe two years. Now imagine that you have sex with your partner every day for six days straight and you ejaculate every day of those six days. Chances are you're not going to want to be intimate with them on the seventh day, maybe even the six or the fifth or the fourth day, depending on how old you are, depending on your lifestyle and all this stuff.

 

Taylor: (23:25)

One of the most practical reasons you might want to retain your semen is because when you ejaculate, generally speaking, you are losing polarity. You're losing that charge in your life, but also with your partner. And if you do it over and over and over again, it can lead to a depolarization in your relationship. And then all of a sudden, you might be more reactive and you might get into a little tiff or argument about somebody who left a little bit extra on the dishes, or it opens up the possibility for discontent.

 

Mason: (23:55)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). The hangover.

 

Taylor: (23:58)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Example number one. Yeah, the orgasm hangover or the ejaculation hangover is real, and it affects not only your physiology, but your neuro chemicals as well. And that's something I want to do more research on to understand what exactly it is I'm talking about, but it has an effect on your brain for I think it's up to seven to ten days or something like that, I just read recently.

 

Mason: (24:22)

Yeah. I think that's kind of confronting when you start reading about this, it definitely was for me when I was in a position where it wasn't necessarily something, like the mastery of that skill wasn't something that I saw was really on the horizon, and I had to do some other work first. And so then what comes up is, figuratively speaking is the morality around the fact that you're leaking your Jing essence and getting into like, "Is it bad for me to be coming?" I think that's when I was just ... I remember doing this years ago that I was interested again, of going and reading the reviews and seeing the reactions to this kind of, and I imagine you get it a lot as well, about to both the book Sexual Mastery for Men and The Tao of Sex, Health and Longevity by Daniel Reid.

 

Mason: (25:16)

I don't know if you know his work. He's just another ... He's American, I think he's in his 70s now. Lived in Byron Bay for a while so he has a bit of a name of himself around here for being the local Taoist but he teaches a lot of these sexual practices. And you read the reviews of people really reacting. They're like, "This isn't natural. This isn't something that I want to do." But from a charged place and .... What I'm liking is what's coming out now I feel in the health scene is a very non-charged, "Hey, let's just lay out some of the realities of it. Don't get into right or wrong." Even if you're not going to be retaining ejaculate and having multiple orgasms, you can still be very aware of the physiological and neuro chemical nature of what happens when you do come, and then manage your energy and yourself, and your lifestyle, and your nutrition, and hydration in order to prevent you going, exactly what you're saying, start getting to that point where you do react towards yourself and your partner when you lose your essence.

 

Mason: (26:27)

If you're already tired, and you lose that much mineral Jing essence, that little ... Actually I've got a quote here that I think kind of like in terms of what it is. Do you know Nicolas Venette, a 17th century sexologist?

 

Taylor: (26:43)

I don't.

 

Mason: (26:45)

"Semen is the most refined and noblest part of the whole human frame, containing in itself the whole nature and complexion of every part of the body, or in other words being the very essence of man." And if you're losing that essence, naturally, it's just going to be like, "Well guys, like of course. That takes a lot to make it and you releasing it, maybe you're going to be a bit tired afterwards." Have you just got like, I don't know if there's anything else you want to say to that hangover?

 

Taylor: (27:11)

Yeah. Well, something came up that I have not really thought about before, but I'm just going to go off the cuff here. You've talked about some of those people on the reviews saying, "Oh, this isn't natural. We're meant to come regularly." And it makes me think like, if we take an evolutionary perspective on how we came to be here today, like if you look back tens of thousands of years ago at our ancestors, it was a much different scenario then. Survival was top on the list. It was survival, survive, procreate, eat, fuck, sleep, repeat. The death rate was probably much higher than it is now. There were predators around, there were different people who might want to kill you everywhere, and so it was probably advantageous to be ejaculating regularly in people to help the species continue, as much as possible, right?

 

Taylor: (28:03)

And yes, we're factories for that. We could do that as men, and some of the research points to that. They've done studies on, there's one rat study in particular, where they looked at rats in captivity. They tried to have this one rat, mate with one mate over and over and over again, and the more times it ejaculated with this partner, the less it was interested and the less energy it had. But if you put in a bunch of new female rats, then this one male rat could have sex, sex, sex, sex, and would basically have sex until it died or got sick, with the introduction of new partners.

 

Taylor: (28:39)

So if we fast forward today, we don't have to deal, we're not in that survival mindset in the same way that we were tens of thousands of years ago, yet our biology is generally the same by all intensive research purposes. So instead of being this factory for the production of more humans, like we could harness that energy and put it into our business, put it into our entrepreneurial pursuits, put it into our art, put it into our creativity. It's an option. That's just cool. It just occurred to me like, maybe it's not natural if we're trying to create as many humans as possible so we can survive, but we're not in that scenario anymore.

 

Mason: (29:19)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I think the other nice thing is we're in a scenario where this doesn't have to be a super taboo or some hippy bullshit or something only for Taoists. This seems to be coming a little bit more of a grounded and logical conversation, which I'm really appreciating. And in that, what are you looking at in terms of primary benefits to someone's physiology, and long term health, if you start delving into this area. You've already mentioned the rechanneling, maybe you can talk a little bit more about that.

 

Taylor: (29:56)

Yeah. Well, I'll speak to my own just personal practice of semen retention for a moment. I have discovered that my ideal ejaculation frequency is somewhere between 10 and 14 days. I can have as much sex as I want during that period or as much self-pleasure. But if I ejaculate at that frequency, I noticed that I don't suffer any of the effects of repeat ejaculation hangover. And so for me, an ejaculation hangover would manifest in my body and in my mind, with brain fog, with lack of clarity, with lack of feeling of direction and on purpose, less confidence, less zest, and just less creative energy.

 

Taylor: (30:37)

I've noticed that I can do manual labor over and over and over again in that space, but what's more challenging for me is using my mind in creative ways to solve problems in that period of ejaculation hangover. I'm less sociable, I'm less able to hold up conversation, all that stuff. Whereas if I retain my semen, a benefit of that is more clarity, more direction of my life purpose, more feelings of vitality inside, more feelings of power. I'm convinced that people in public look at me differently if I'm 14 days in. I've done experiments with that and I think there's an energetic radiance that can sort of happen with that, and that getting into woo-woo territory. But there's something very real about that, and maybe it's just body language, maybe it's just how your eyes operate. But you know what I mean?

 

Mason: (31:30)

Well, I mean, absolutely. I feel like in terms of being woo-woo, I mean, everybody listening to this podcast would have heard us talk about the three treasures regularly.

 

Taylor: (31:41)

Okay, cool. Great. Awesome.

 

Mason: (31:41)

Jing, Qi, Shen is probably like a foundation. The foundation of why we practice tonic herbalism isn't to remedy what's wrong, it is to tonify and cultivate the three energies which are the source of our life, which is the Jing, the Qi, and the Shen. So they very much understand the nature of Jing been associated with our sexual fluids, with semen and without genetic potential being the wax of the candle, in the analogy. If we can build up that wax of the candle, because whether we like it or not, we're not saying it's not like a very moral or extreme statement, what I'm saying and coming from someone who is coming.

 

Mason: (32:24)

I'm not saying that you if you come, you're just going to keep on depleting that wax and you're going to leak your Jing and that's it for you, you're not going to be able to do this. We're just talking about almost another tool or another practice, to possibly continue to very successfully manage the wax of your candle, your Jing and your physiology. I think what you're talking about is when you're retaining that essence, and you're using it consciously or conscientiously, and you're conscientiously coming, you are building up that wax so that the flame can be nice and bright. So your Qi is cultivating and flowing so that your Shen, your wisdom, your essence is shining bright. The light coming off your candle can be brighter.

 

Mason: (33:06)

We know that when you've got that skip in your step and that twinkle in your eye, you can notice it in people. If you've felt it in yourself when you're exhausted and tapped out, like I feel invisible when I'm like that. Naturally, I can take on a bit of a gray demeanor, verse when I'm really pumping and hydrated and I'm feeling great, I'm expressing my emotions, and I'm being responsible sexually, and cultivating energy and really connecting, fuck, you feel incredible. Of course, not that it's about that, but people notice it. So yeah, man. I think I appreciate you saying that.

 

Taylor: (33:43)

Yeah, and thank you for saying that too. It's just meeting you now for the first time and just learning about everything you're doing two days ago, I haven't had a chance to really dive in and understand what you're sharing, but I've made it a personal mission of mine to try to take how I talk about this and make it as accessible and approachable to the mainstream as I can, because I believe in these practices and the power there. I've been sort of training myself to say less things that could be construed as the derogatory word woo-woo, just because I want CEOs to find us. I want big business people to find this. I want people who work in banks to find this because I do believe that these practices really will change the way that, how you see the world, how you see life, how you walk in the world, and I want more people to be doing this. So thanks for saying that.

 

Mason: (34:33)

Yeah. And I appreciate you saying that as well. I mean, there is a reality and it's a confronting reality around what it means, where we build something like semen and then we release it constantly, but there's no reason why this can be decharged around being considered woo-woo, and almost this is something that was talked about in men. You can almost see that the pub, I was like, "Oh gosh, you're a bit grouchy, are you? You're in the ejaculation hangover, are you Terry? Just something that's like, it is somewhat of a reality, which doesn't mean it needs to be moralized. So I've got another quote here if you don't mind. I've never had-

 

Taylor: (35:13)

Yeah, please.

 

Mason: (35:14)

I got a couple from Kim Anami, just like she was talking about semen. Especially, if people who have gone down that route of the Taoists, even in Tantra, it can be very colorful and poetic, this whole thing, which is amazing. I personally love that. I'm kind of like, I've become somewhat of a tragic ... Did I just say come what of a ...? I'm somewhat of a romantic, just like a tragic in that area when it comes to talking about these things, which if that's the only way you talk about these things, it can become a little bit difficult to approach these and land them in your life. However, that's the nature of it, and especially if you look at the nature of the White Tigress in Jade Dragon traditions when it comes to Taoism.

 

Mason: (36:05)

I don't know if you've read a lot of those books. It's really beautiful and poetic in terms of talking about these lineages of Taoism where they really were focusing on that cultivation of sexual energy. When you look at the Jade Dragon, the men's sexual, the semen retention practices, multiple orgasms, as well as the Qigong and the consumption of Jing herbs, and all these kinds of things. All they are is they're seen as spiritual practices, cultivating energy that can be then funneled into your meditation, into the work that you're doing out there into the world, and very much youthening practices as well, which can ...

 

Mason: (36:47)

You can just think about it. If it takes fluid and minerals, and stem cells, and power, like an ATP and mitochondrial energy in order to create semen, and if you continuously release it and you need to direct all that energy to go and then constantly build it up and create it again, it's just simple science. It's simple logic, you're not going to have the essence and the enzymatic power, and the energy, and the organ power to redirect into other places, which are going to be seen as like, youthening, vitality, cultivation of Qi in other areas. So, in saying that, here is that quote from Mantak Chia, I think it was the Cultivating Male Sexual Energy, 1984. What year were you born, man?

 

Taylor: (37:37)

'85.

 

Mason: (37:38)

Yeah. Me is about maybe six, so this is before our time. Look at us. A couple of experts on sexual practices and meanwhile these quotes. "When hormonal secretions of the sexual glands are regularly leached out, the body is sapped at its root without a period of time, that will range from months to decades depending on the endowment of the individual, creative and sexual abilities are halved, and the ability to withstand disease and the frailties of old age is diminished". Don't know if you want to elaborate on that in any way, I'll put your two cents in.

 

Taylor: (38:19)

I don't know what else there is to say.

 

Mason: (38:22)

It nails it, right?

 

Taylor: (38:24)

It does. I guess the one other piece I want to say is, semen retention, it's not like the magic bullet. I do want to say it's amazing but, and if you're not also ensuring that you get a good night's sleep, if you're not also staying hydrated. If you're not taking care of all these other areas of your life, it doesn't matter how much semen retention you do, you're still going to lose energy in all these other ways. It's like one piece of the whole picture of being a holistically minded individual. That's really important, that doesn't get talked about enough, but it isn't the only thing.

 

Mason: (39:01)

Awesome. Yeah. And that's something, try and talk about that a lot. If you have very, very, very realistic expectations on these practices, on the tonic herbs, on medicinal mushrooms, whatever it is, if you just get it off a pedestal and just sit in it's very real relevant place, that means because you're not going to have expectations shattered, because you had something on a fucking pedestal for so long, it means you're going to have the stamina to consistently do the practice. In saying that, we were talking about having particular teachers, Taoist teachers, whether it's Mantak up on these pedestals. It's something that I think we both wanted to talk about, in terms of when approaching these things. You just want to have a jam out about that now?

 

Taylor: (39:53)

Yeah, let's go for it. Let's go for it. I've never personally studied with Mantak, but I studied a fair amount with Michael Winn, who co-wrote the Cultivating Male Sexual Energy. He's actually based a few miles from where I live right now in Asheville. And so, that's been really convenient. Another big teacher in my life has been this guy named David Deida. I'm sure you've probably heard of him, have you?

 

Mason: (40:15)

I do.

 

Taylor: (40:15)

Yeah. So I've read most of his books. I did a workshop with him. Earlier this year, I actually had an opportunity to sit down with him and have a beer at a table with some other people, because I worked security at an event of his and we went out afterwards, and we just hung out. It was this really interesting process for me to, A, I had never done security at an event before. That was a trip. But, B, the most fascinating thing was, I had sort of deified him. After reading his books, after going through his workshop, I put him up on this pedestal and thought, just like all the things associated with that, like, "He can do no wrong," or "He has all the answers," or "Oh he has something that I don't," or "I need him for this, X, Y and Z."

 

Taylor: (40:58)

It took a good half hour of being at that table with him and a handful of other people, to just whittle those away and remember like, "Oh you're just a guy, who has invested a lot of time and energy in studying this stuff, but you're still very much a human, you still struggle with things. You still don't want to be in big crowds of people. You have your own quirks just like everybody else." And it was a very humbling experience for me and a useful experience to realise, all these teachers that I have deified, even Mantak, I don't necessarily have to study with them to get the value from their material, and I don't necessarily even have to read all the material. They're not gods. I'm not a god. I don't know what else to say about that. I think it's just important to realise, you know what I mean? We're all humans.

 

Mason: (41:52)

I think what's ... Because I think we've all gone through that, maybe, maybe not. But I'll speak definitely speak for myself, and I've had those people I'd put on pedestals, and then I've had to come crashing down. For me, it was a pattern of looking for that place that I think is right or the authority, and then attaching myself to that authority, so that I can feel ... For me, it was dietarily and health wise, that I can feel like I'm in a superior place, and I'm actually in a safe place, where I'm actually doing everything right now. That's just the case when you go ... And I can see it, you read The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida, and you're doing the Taoist sexual practice, and you look at the rest of the society, what I see, what happens is we oppose ourselves.

 

Mason: (42:33)

A lot of the time in the beginning, we need opposition. So we oppose ourselves against society, which has taught us that pornography is the standard, that your own sexuality is taboo. So we need to kick back against that, and when we kick back against that, we look at who's on the other side of that thing we're opposing. We're trying, and so we find the leaders that we then go and deify, because in order to stay opposed to the energy of what we're moving away from, we need a deity or we need a different pole in order to go towards. And of course, it's all our own identity building. And in the beginning that can be useful, but also being aware of that charge. Because quite often what people look for then, is when they realize, hang on, I've identified with this person and making this person the deity, or just putting them on a pedestal.

 

Mason: (43:27)

If the person you're following is in a good position, I assume like David Deida, it's good to hear he was just someone that was down to earth and just via following him or just being in his presence, you came to that realization for yourself. I feel like that's what happens with Mantak, from hearing about Tahnee being the Tao Garden and talking to him. He just sits down and eats with everyone, has chats with everyone, and talks his shit and all his students are likewise they're just like you know what? He's got his own stuff going on, and he deals with it, but we've just got a like a healthy relationship. We just go to him for the teachings and we know where the line is.

 

Mason: (44:06)

But then there's those times when your teacher doesn't have that groundedness to defuse it in themselves, and so they parasitically ... Like they live off that energy of people deifying them, and that suck it up. And so, what we get used to is needing to find something wrong with that deity, with that person, in order to escape from their claws. Again, it's external, and then the pendulum swings and people need to get into this resentment around people who are representing this health, and teaching these ancient lineages, where it's not about them. Some people are fucking awful, and they are preying on people and they're abusing their position. But that's their shit. You need to just like de-charge and come to that position, where you just realise everyone's a human. We're all bloody equal here and it's your shit that you deify that person, right?

 

Taylor: (45:02)

Yeah. Wow. Very well said. I'm going to go back and listen to you say that whole thing again. Thanks.

 

Mason: (45:07)

Well, just hearing your ... This is what always happens on the podcast. I mean, and I learn personally through talking things out, and I always appreciate this podcast. Hear you talking about all these things and then it brings up some shit in myself, and I go on my rants and that's how I kind of work out these concepts internally.

 

Taylor: (45:32)

It's great.

 

Mason: (45:33)

First of all, that's great to hear that about David Deida, because he's such a legend. I found that book exceptionally transformational, and again, everyone ... And he's got several, but The Way of the Superior Man is just ... Imagine just having a term studying that in year nine and ten of like middle school for you guys. And parents can just go that. Parents, that's what the beauty of it, we don't have to rely on the schooling system to do it.

 

Taylor: (46:03)

Now that's a fantasy, is bringing all this stuff, bringing everything we're talking about right now into kids, into the teenagers. Wow. How different would our society be if we did that? That's a fantasy of mine, passion somehow, maybe hopefully one day.

 

Mason: (46:22)

Well, it's happening, for sure. Like there's parents who are exposing their kids, just and they're very grounded people. Again, we don't need to make this trippy or woo-woo, when kids can still be heavily integrated into the community, and not be ostracized by knowing about these things which go against very traditional society, if we teach them how to not grab on to these ideas, and try and become superior in themselves because they know them. Parents, you just have these conversations each and every day, appropriately based on the age, but you can just have these very responsibly. Anyway, we're all here doing it together. I think it's happening man.

 

Mason: (47:02)

So then going into some of the practicalities again, in terms of what steps that men can be taking along this journey, and I think I'm definitely going to jump onto your course as well, and just go a little bit deeper down that route as well, because having a structure really works for me. But, what are the steps? And then can you also talk about some of the fallacies that occur, just in case everyone's heard it before. Some of the examples I'm talking about are like edging in an incorrect way, coming, edging towards orgasm, and then what are some of the fallacies there, and some of the correct ways to do it. Also, that false ejaculate retention by pushing up into the peritoneum there, or if you learned your physiology from Jackass, the Gooch, and pushing the semen and back up into the bladder. I just like to get the world of these steps that you're taking over months for men to start retaining semen.

 

Taylor: (48:12)

Yeah. Wow. How to condense all these into some useful ... Well, I'd say the first thing to start with, sounds like a lot of people listening to this already are kind of on board, but it's just the realisation that there is something else that's possible. There is another paradigm of sex, there's another paradigm of energy and relating, and consciousness that's available, that society doesn't talk about in the grand scheme of things. So that's step one, is just to know that there's something else out there that's possible, and I'm here to say and it sounds like you're here to say, that it can be way more pleasurable and connective than the typical sex that I grew up with, and that I learned from porn.

 

Taylor: (48:52)

And then seeking out resources. Books are a great way to start. Mantak Chia's book can be a great way to start. That book, The Way of the Superior Man, it has some awesome insights into sex. I posted about that book on my Instagram yesterday, and immediately. I think it was like less than a minute later, somebody responded with a DM that said, "That book saved my marriage. It literally saved my marriage." And then it was one of the most responded to stories I've posted in a while, with all these people saying how much it's impacted them. So books, start with books, and then YouTube. There's a lot of free information out there. Just start researching.

 

Taylor: (49:28)

And then I'd say, another huge thing that's really important for us as men specifically, is to talk to another brother about this stuff. Talk to another man about this stuff. Find a friend who's interested, find some sort of community who's also interested in this. We're programmed often as men to do everything by ourselves, to be the sort of like lone wolf. We have to be self sufficient, self empowered, do everything ourselves. That's a problem and it's a fallacy. Having community around this, is so amazing. That was one of my favorite things about the course that we just did, was seeing and hearing about all the experiences from the guys in the Facebook group, and talking about on the live calls, and seeing different people's wins, and having them ask questions and have each other answer their questions.

 

Taylor: (50:19)

I say that community piece is really, really important. And I think it's something as men in general, we need to step more into men's groups, men's gatherings, men's workshops, spaces for us to reevaluate how we walk in the world and that sort of thing. And then I know this is a fair amount of a tangent, but I think it's really important that we do that. And then you could take a course. You could take my course, you could take somebody else's course, if you want to go have a deeper dive into it. Not everybody wants to. I think everybody should, of course. Yeah, I'll pause there.

 

Mason: (50:54)

Well, at least arriving at a point where it's a choice. I've heard a lot of people go like, "I've kind of learned it and then played around with it, and then I just chose that I didn't really want to have that as a practice in my life," which is kind of a nice non-charged way to go about it. Can you talk about, around anything in terms of practices for strengthening the PC muscle just very quickly, that might just shine some light on it for guys that are already taking on this practice. Maybe they've read the 500 a day kind of squeeze thing.

 

Taylor: (51:25)

Yeah. I will hit that, and then want to speak to the retrograde ejaculation thing that you talked about, just because you mentioned it earlier. So there is this whole other thing that can happen, where some guys think that they're having a non-ejaculatory orgasm. And often that happens by using the million dollar point technique right before an ejaculatory orgasm where-

 

Mason: (51:48)

That was the gooch was talking about everybody, to put it as they say in Grey's Anatomy.

 

Taylor: (51:53)

Yes, putting the fingers forcefully into the perennial, and what you're actually doing there, you're still having an ejaculatory orgasm, you're just diverting your ejaculate into your bladder, instead of out through your penis. So you still lose everything that you lose during your orgasm, you still go through that refractory period. It might seem like you're having a non-ejaculatory orgasm, but if you pee in a glass cup immediately afterwards, you will see ejaculate in that.

 

Mason: (52:22)

Do you see this happening even if they're not hitting that point, which, everyone is between the anus and the testes? That's the point we're talking about.

 

Taylor: (52:29)

Yeah. Technically, you can strengthen your PC muscles to be able to squeeze hard enough there, that you can squeeze and divert that flow without touching your fingers. You can do it with crossing your legs. Some people supposedly can do that with intention. I don't know them. I've just heard about that. I prefer to not do that practice. If I'm going to have an ejaculation, I would rather it leave my penis and go through the natural flow, than get diverted up into my bladder. I would either rather have a non-ejaculatory, energetic full body orgasm, or a full on ejaculatory orgasm and not this sort of weird false, non-ejaculatory orgasm.

 

Mason: (53:10)

I'm just going to ask another question here. I just want everyone to know, I'm still aware we're going to talk about edging and we're still going to talk about PC, but now I feel like somewhat of a seminal elephant in the room is, what happens to the ejaculate when you don't come?

 

Taylor: (53:31)

Just gets reabsorbed by your body. It doesn't build up. You don't get giant testicles. It just cycles naturally internally. That's my understanding.

 

Mason: (53:45)

Yeah. When you're going through these practices, I've heard you talk about blue balls quite a bit. I mean, can you quickly share whether it's blue balls and you feel that concentration of sexual energy? A lot of guys might be familiar, we have a deer antler velvet product and sometimes guys will take it consistently, and build up a lot of Yang Jing. I mean, a lot of sexual energy and feel charged. A lot of, you can associate that with that like, "I've got too testosterone. I'm feeling that slight frustration and aggression." What are some practices we can do to re-divert that energy?

 

Taylor: (54:32)

Yes, I will hit on that. And I just wanted to add one other piece of clarity about what I just said, is I'm remembering that there is some evidence to show that if you do retain your semen for months, like four, or five, six plus months, then your sperm count might drop. It might go lower, so then if you're wanting to have a child ... And I'm not an expert on this, but I remember hearing this at the tantric school where I studied, I think they recommended having an ejaculation or two, before you actually try to conceive, but that's ... Do more research on that for sure. But I just wanted to add that one piece in, to [crosstalk 00:55:09] mouthful. Yeah. Can you say the last thing you just did again?

 

Mason: (55:14)

Yeah. How are we taking that build up of sexual energy, and taking it into different places in the body? Just very simple practice.

 

Taylor: (55:21)

Yeah. Well, there's so many different ways to do that. One of them is the microcosmic orbit, which I'm sure a lot of you listening are familiar with. Another, which I learned earlier this year on a different podcast, Sean Wes. It's a different business podcast, but they did a whole review of this book. What was it? Think and Grow Rich, and on the chapter about sublimating your sexual energy, one of the guys on there said he tried this technique. He was really attracted to this woman and feeling sexually charged, and thinking about her all the time while he was at the office, and he got out a sheet of paper and wrote down, "I am transmuting my sexual energy from this woman, and from being aroused by her, and I'm putting into my work right now." And the act of writing it down for him, it changed something in his physiology, and the solidifying of his intention on paper just shifted something internally for him. That's a very practical way to do that, and I thought that was fascinating. I've tried it a few times since then in a variety of contexts, and it works surprisingly well.

 

Mason: (56:25)

Yeah, where your attention goes, your energy flows, right?

 

Taylor: (56:28)

Totally.

 

Mason: (56:31)

Completely with that, I feel like that's something that's often ... It's a pretty obvious caveat. Over the next, say like decade, it's going to be a really great endeavor for everyone to really get in touch with their sexual energy, and get an understanding, come into a deeper relationship with the nature of your creation of come, and how you're releasing it, and just watching the patterns that arise afterwards, and when you're retaining, that might just come from celibacy. It might not just be the fact that you're doing multiple orgasms. Just watch yourself because it's a reality, and give yourself time. Don't be too harsh on yourself.

 

Mason: (57:10)

But inside of that, you're going to have to take that sexual energy at some point, and realise that it's a part of you. It's not isolated into a box, and around your dick. As you were saying, like just say, "I'm going to go put that into my work." I know that can be something very different for men. Well, how can I take something that's just used for like attraction or fucking, and put that into two hours sitting at my desk? I think most people have heard it, but it's worth reiterating again, that sexual energy, it's just energy and it's your energy, and it's just you and it is your creativity.

 

Taylor: (57:52)

Totally. Yeah. And if you want it, a simple, practical way to try this, if you have a partner right now that you're having sex with, and you've never tried this before, I recommend having sex with your partner before you go to work and don't ejaculate. And at the end of that, to make sure you don't get blue balls or to make sure you don't get stagnation, massage your testicles, massage your perineum, do some jumping jacks, do some push ups, just to move your energy throughout your whole body, maybe some Qigong if you know, some Qigong exercises, and then go to work. And just notice what happens. Notice your levels of attention, notice your levels of motivation, and your ability to focus and concentrate. I would imagine and I would bet, that it will be different.

 

Mason: (58:36)

Yeah. I love it. Now, I've read a couple of your blogs, and with the just talking about the difference in the type of orgasm, and what you'd be expecting from a multiple orgasm. So we're getting to this point where we we're in website, we're consistent, we're months in, we begin to procure this ability to retain our semen. What kind of orgasm are you going to be looking at? What's occurring there?

 

Taylor: (59:05)

Yes, very good question. And if you look on the back of Mantak Chia's book it says ... I actually have this book right here. It says specifically, "Learn to separate orgasm and ejaculation." The very top line on the back of this book. And I think that there's truth to that, but it can be misleading for a lot of people. Because the types of orgasms that are the more full body, you could call it tantric, you could call it energetic orgasms. You could call it cosmic orgasms, whatever you want to call it, they're different than the typical ejaculatory orgasm. They don't have the involuntary genital contractions. They're not focused all in your penis and your general region. They could flow through your body like heat waves.

 

Taylor: (59:50)

They can happen in your fingertips, in your heart, in your face and your nipples. You could experience energy moving everywhere and you could feel more pleasure. You could feel like your arm is ejaculating, minus the actual loss of semen and energy. And so, it's a different thing. So instead of saying, "Learn how to separate your orgasm from ejaculation," I would say, "Learn how to experience a new kind of orgasm, that's different probably from what you've experienced growing up. And this other kind of orgasm can do wonders for your health, for your relationship, for basically every area of your life and it can actually feel more pleasurable too."

 

Mason: (01:00:32)

I mean, basically what I'm thinking there, especially if you look at those, the Taoist sexual schools, if you look at the Jade Dragon Schools, it's about cultivating this energy and to refine, and bring forth the elixir of immortality. That can be very poetic, kind of well, what is that? Are we talking about real immortality? Are we're talking about a nice long life, a rich life? What is it? However, what you were just saying in terms of that whole body orgasm, I think a lot of ... especially people who have had, whether it's psychedelics or drugs in their past, and there's been times where you can almost sit there in that peak experience of having a whole body orgasm.

 

Mason: (01:01:19)

During these times, and we might be doing plant medicine or whatever it is, but remembering that those peak experiences are something that is innate, we do have all the ingredients of that, for lack of a better unpoetic word, the elixir of immortality, to be able to have those kinds of experiences. I'm sure whether a lot of people listening have had those, you can have a sexual experience where it's just cut and dry, and you're in and out, all those times when you might not be retaining, though you're really connected with your heart and you can feel a differentiation in the type of orgasm, where it does become a little bit more whole body and you can almost start tripping out. Not almost, you do start tripping.

 

Taylor: (01:02:03)

You do.

 

Mason: (01:02:04)

For sure. And there's something nice and endogenous us in that. Sorry, man.

 

Taylor: (01:02:10)

Sorry, I interrupted you.

 

Mason: (01:02:12)

Go for it.

 

Taylor: (01:02:13)

Yeah. Also, I just want to be clear and transparent, that I'm not having these full transcendental, psychedelic full body orgasms every time I have sex. Sometimes when I have sex, it's just a very pleasure filled experience, and I can have orgasmic type experiences, but I'm not having like the full on psychedelic thing happen every time I have sex. My directive or my goal in sex has shifted from when I was younger. It used to be ejaculation only. Now, its pleasure, and connection, and energy.

 

Taylor: (01:02:52)

And so, if I happen to have one of these cosmic orgasms, that's beautiful, and that's awesome, and it's not necessarily my end goal. Like I'm not going into sex thinking, "I'm going to have the cosmic orgasm." I'm going into sex thinking like, wow, A, either, "I'm so horny and turned on by you. I want to make love." And, B, like, "And I want this experience to be really connective, and awesome, and beautiful, and without going to this goal." Because with that goal oriented mindset, it sort of shapes the way sex progresses. Without that, there's a lot more openness for ebb and flow, and creativity that I have experienced.

 

Mason: (01:03:33)

Right on man, and that's why you're on the pod, because that creation of just an open, grounded, realistic expectation on the practice is something that's necessary to make this sustainable. Let's touch back. Just there are two things I want to do. I'm just a hit, so we don't want to leave everyone hanging. Can you just explain what edging is? And could you just give a very brief touching a base of the way edging can be done? Just like whether it's ineffective versus effective.

 

Taylor: (01:04:06)

Yeah. So real quick, edging is this practice of, if you think of sexual arousal and ejaculation on a scale of one, or zero to 100, and 95 is the point of no return, and in between 95 and 100 is your ejaculatory orgasm. Edging is the process of getting your sexual response system up to 92, 93, 94. Like that point just before ejaculation, and then pressing pause, and then doing some breathing and coming back down to maybe like 50% 70% somewhere on that scale. And the idea is to practice reaching that point, and to build your capacity to get to this higher states of pleasure and come back down. For that, it can be very useful. A big pitfall though, and a big problem with this whole edging practice that's not often talked about is, rushing to edge and seeing that area of 90% to 94% as pleasure, versus seeing that, everywhere else on that scale is pleasurable to.

 

Taylor: (01:05:08)

And so, one problem that I ran into a bit ago, when I was doing a lot of this edging practice, I would notice that when I would self pleasure, when I would masturbate, I would rush right up to my edge, because that's where I experience "the most sexual pleasure." I would get to that edge in like a minute and a half, usually or less, because that's what I was going for. What that was doing, was training my sexual response system to go from non-erection to almost ejaculation in a minute and a half, and that translates into every sexual experience you could have from there.

 

Taylor: (01:05:45)

Sure enough, after doing a lot of the edging practice, I thought, "I'm getting really good at going up and coming back down." When I got into the sexual experience, it was like, "A minute in, holy shit, back off." That's a danger area, and I would say be very aware of that, and spend more time in the lower ranges versus just edge, edge, edge, over and over, and over again.

 

Mason: (01:06:09)

Man, awesome. The other thing, just to quickly hit in again is going into the PC muscle, because that's such a huge part of this especially on the Internet. You've talked about, if it's tense, going in and just strengthening and squeezing the PC muscles, probably not going to be the best thing ever. Breathing practices to release tension in through that area, generally stretching in through the pelvic region, through the hip flexors is of course going to create freedom in that area. Is there just anything else you'd like to touch on then? What's your approach there? And how do you see the role of the PC muscle, in the way that you teach this art?

 

Taylor: (01:06:53)

I do see the PC muscle as being really important, and there is research out there that shows that a stronger PC muscle, does help people overcome premature ejaculation. So that research exists, which is awesome. There's very little research out there about this, in peer reviewed journals. Primarily, I think because what pharmaceutical company is going to fund that? There's not a whole lot of money to be made in empowering men do this on themselves. Yes, I do see strengthening the PC muscle as important. As important as relaxing it, and stretching that area, and breathing deeply into that area, and breathing deeply throughout your daily life and tuning in.

 

Taylor: (01:07:34)

So I've made a practice of tuning into my pelvic floor throughout my day, multiple times a day, to just notice if I can relax it at all. If I can, I will release it, drop it. I will do a little press. There's like a pelvic floor push you can do, that feels similar to if you were taking a pee, and you wanted to see just how far you could pee and you've pushed, that sort of a thing, that's helpful in relaxing it. Some people call that a reverse Kegel. I'll just do that to try to reset. And sometimes if I just feel tight overall, I'll just [inaudible 01:08:08]. Like shake my body.

 

Mason: (01:08:11)

Just shake it off.

 

Taylor: (01:08:12)

Totally. Shaking is a very underrated tool.

 

Mason: (01:08:16)

Absolutely it is. I mean, it's people like whether it's psychotherapy, whether it's Taoism, whether it's yogic, whether it's just watching animals release stress. I think there's a great book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, and it's pretty much just talking to this innate physiological reality of our nervous system and our body, that shaking is going to be beneficial in releasing that tension. Final question I have, and we can then either just bring it into land or riff a little bit is, when you find yourself orgasming with that semen retention, do you see it's been the product of you using a technique and squeezing correctly, in order to stop that from occurring? Or is it something through your consistent practice, and you've been present with yourself and your breath, that it is something that simply occurs?

 

Taylor: (01:09:17)

So you're speaking of the having a non-ejaculatory orgasm?

 

Mason: (01:09:21)

That's right. Yeah. Whether we're looking at conscious effort during that experience, whether that happens in the beginning and then fades off, or it's something that you kind of release into and it can just occur, when you're in touch with yourself.

 

Taylor: (01:09:37)

Yeah. Some people teach method of doing a squeeze and a tensing, and drawing up the spine just before ejaculation, to ejaculate up the spine. I never really had much success with that. I don't know a whole lot of people who have. I'm sure there are some people and props to you. That's awesome. What I'm talking about, it's more of an unfolding. It's more of an allowing, an easeful allowing, of this energy to move through your entire system. And like I said a little bit ago, it could start off as just like a little bit of tingles in your hand, or tingle in your spine, or pleasure in your chest and your heart.

 

Taylor: (01:10:15)

But it can be like an ocean wave, crashing. It's just (whoosing sound) kind of a thing, versus the more like, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. I'm not doing a specific thing, to have this non-ejaculatory orgasm. I'm just breathing in, making sounds, and loving the pleasure that I'm experiencing. If I'm doing that without a goal, that's ... Here's the irony. If my goal is to have that orgasm, it's probably not going to happen. But if my goal is pleasure and my goal is connection, then it's much more likely to happen. It's a little bit of a trip.

 

Mason: (01:10:55)

Yeah. These things, they can seem super mysterious until they're not. It's a practical thing. I know you do one on one coaching. Have you got any of your courses coming up? Because it seems like you have openings for courses, where you take a crew of guys through the process.

 

Taylor: (01:11:15)

Yeah. I do coaching. I do very limited coaching. I only want to work with a maximum of three guys at a time, just for my own sanity and my own balance, because when I do that, it's more like a partnering with them. But this course, yeah, so I have a course called Orgasmic Mastery. It ended about ... Let's see, maybe three or four weeks ago, the first round, it was awesome. Yeah, it was a really, really great experience. Guys in there got great results. I took some quantitative data actually during that program, to see if the program was actually effective. It is. It's awesome. I haven't analyzed it all yet and put it out there, but I will soon in a blog post. So it's effective. That was super important to me.

 

Taylor: (01:12:00)

The next round of that is going to begin in, I think ... I don't know if it's January first, second or third, but somewhere around there, the beginning of January. So in the [inaudible 01:12:13] middle of summer, it's going to start in anyway again. It's really awesome to go through this with a group of guys, because you have that community vibe. You can all support each other and see like, "Tommy, or Brad or whoever, they just had this experience. Wow, that means I can do it too," or vice versa.

 

Mason: (01:12:27)

Sweet. All right. We'll put the links to that in the show notes. I mean, getting them to your mailing list is probably ... I've noticed that theme get on the mailing list. That's going to be the best way to go. I could get a bit of a discount on the course as well. Right?

 

Taylor: (01:12:38)

Yeah. People who are on my mailing list get first access to special offers and all that good stuff, for sure.

 

Mason: (01:12:44)

Sweet.

 

Taylor: (01:12:45)

Yeah, join up.

 

Mason: (01:12:48)

What about Instagram, a good place to follow you, I'd suggest.

 

Taylor: (01:12:52)

Yeah. @taylorclarkjohnson on Instagram. I also have a YouTube channel. It's just my name, Sexual Mastery, Taylor Johnson. Probably I will change that. But it's there for now. Yeah, my website, YouTube, and email list and Instagram, that would be awesome.

 

Mason: (01:13:08)

Awesome man, really appreciate you coming on with me here for Brovember, laying it all down for the bros listening.

 

Taylor: (01:13:14)

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being here. I appreciate meeting you and finding out about this community of people, because this is inspiring for me. This is the type of thing that I want to be involved with, and I want to support in the world. And so, you'll be hearing more from me.

 

Mason: (01:13:29)

Yeah, man. I'm definitely going to stay tuned in. Hey, I forgot. I'm going to have to get you hooked up with some of the herbs, but have you tuned into that world yet?

 

Taylor: (01:13:41)

Some. The only thing I've ever experimented with is pine pollen.

 

Mason: (01:13:47)

Yeah. Beautiful androgen.

 

Taylor: (01:13:50)

So no, no is the short answer. I haven't done a lot of that. I'm really into wild foraging around here in Asheville. We have a lot of mushrooms and awesome wild edible plants, but I haven't done so much of a deep dive into the world of herbs and supplements, and that sort of thing. So I'm super curious about that.

 

Mason: (01:14:06)

Have you been foraging your own pine pollen around there?

 

Taylor: (01:14:09)

No, that would be a lot [crosstalk 01:14:12].

 

Mason: (01:14:14)

Yeah, it is.

 

Taylor: (01:14:15)

Do you do that?

 

Mason: (01:14:18)

Yeah, I mean, I have. Recently, I haven't been doing it as much, just because life's been a little bit more ... My role in the business and then heaps in the family. I got a toddler, so I haven't been out foraging as much. But I just picked some up off a mate who forages in the local area. I just actually ran out of my supply. When I was in Sydney, I did a harvest a couple of years back, where I just harvested so much and I made tinctures out of it, that I only ran out like a few months ago. So it's worth tuning in with someone if you've got it in the area. But any particular mushrooms you've been out foraging?

 

Taylor: (01:14:59)

Well, there's a lot of different ones around here. But my favorites, of course, are chicken of the woods, chanterelles, morels, oyster mushrooms, we have a bunch of those around here. We have a lot of reishi earlier in the year too, and you can actually eat the tips of the young ones and make teas. Yeah, there's a lot. We have wild asparagus out here too. There's a lot of greens you can eat. There's just like ... Yeah. We technically in Asheville, we were a deciduous rainforest, I believe. It's a very bio-diverse area. So there's a lot of amazing, amazing opportunity for that sort of stuff around here. There's also a lot of wild fruits and fruits too. So there's a big mead making scene and home wine making scene too, and that's a lot of fun.

 

Mason: (01:15:43)

I'm going to have to tune into where you are, because I feel like a lot of the people I follow on Instagram are going to be like in and around that area, because I feel like it's a very kind of particular vibe, especially some of the amateur mycologists. That's the best thing. You've got a lot around that area, and a lot of mead makers, a lot of kind of that folksy herbalists doing all those kinds of brews and things. I love tuning into that area.

 

Taylor: (01:16:06)

It's definitely that. It's a lot of that for sure. A side note, I just saw a movie. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's called Fantastic Fungi. Have you heard of that?

 

Mason: (01:16:15)

Yeah. It's just funny you mentioned that, because I see like Stamets and Michael Pollan. They're talking in that one. I was just trying to see whether there was a viewing in Byron anytime soon. I couldn't find it.

 

Taylor: (01:16:28)

I hope so, man, because it's incredible. Like visually, it's stunning. I mean, the information is awesome too, but the time lapses and just the visualization of everything is incredible. The message is beautiful too. So plug out there. I'm not affiliated in any way, but I watched it multiple times in the theater here because it was so amazing.

 

Mason: (01:16:46)

Really?

 

Taylor: (01:16:47)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:16:47)

Yeah, I think like in Sydney, you could get it. I think they've got it at like Dendy. The movies, kind of like artsy, awesome cinemas down there. I'll tune in, because I want to get that visual representation of the fungal kingdom that I hear is going on, which you just reiterated. I really want to get in there, because that's that magical world that kind of got me into this whole thing to begin with, is that essence and energy within the fungi, within the fruiting body, then the sexual organs. But then knowing if that's what's occurring, and that's where the role that fungi is playing in our world, what does it mean when we take that medicine, and we bring it into our own personal culture, our own diet, on that microcosm, what kind of connectivity is that going to be bringing to our cellular matrix, right?

 

Taylor: (01:17:39)

Right. Yeah, and it's amazing. One thing that really blew my mind was seeing the visualizations of the mycelium underneath too, and just how the mushrooms communicate with each other, and how different trees and plants use the mycelial network to communicate with each other too. That was incredible. And they talk a little bit about the potential involvement of mushrooms in the evolution of the human species as well, and all the different possible medical uses, and health uses of it. Yeah, it's really, really cool. I think our culture needs this sort of thing right now. Let's talk about sex, yeah, and let's talk about mushrooms.

 

Mason: (01:18:15)

Yeah. They fully go hand in hand. Mushrooms are very sexual. I mean, that's why we have to be talking about this sexual energy when you're doing what we do. Like all of these herbs, whether you know ... And we're kind of like we go for Tao. I'll talk to you more about what we do at SuperFeast. I'll get some of those men herbs, and yeah, well they're all men herbs really. I'll get some going your way, but you can't not start getting, procuring Jing Qi, and even honing your Shen without all of a sudden awakening that sexual vigor within yourself. When you take stress off your nervous system through the use of medicinal mushrooms, like reishi, turkey tail, and lion's mane, all of a sudden you are going to have energy accumulating, because you're getting more of a relationship with that parasympathetic nature of yourself.

 

Mason: (01:19:14)

And that system becomes not so much this ... Sympathetic, parasympathetic. No the nuance of that parasympathetic world, and that is incredible. And that's why I like what you were talking about, there is a new that easing and that letting go, you can start to explore that huge terrain, that is that space when you're not accumulating tension, and you're not reacting to the situation, especially not reacting to psychological and emotional patterns that we picked up when we were children, and we're bringing into our sexual relationships right now. That's why I like these tonic herbs, like they're pretty transformational as well. They've got their limits in what they can do, but to an extent, it's going to be, you're going to start awakening something, and a lot of that something is going to be awakened in your genitals.

 

Mason: (01:20:02)

And so then we got to be able to learn what to do with that, and that new untapped potential. So I really appreciate you jamming about it with me, man. I'm going to definitely have to get you some Deer Antler some Eucommia Bark. Bro, well, I think we're going to have to do it again. I think it'd be awesome. I think we should just keep getting this information out there. Everyone go jump onto Taylor's social pipes, YouTube, get on the mailing list, and just go forth and prosper bro.

 

Taylor: (01:20:31)

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy.