Rewilding The Beauty Industry with Montana Lower (EP#204)

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Tahnee takes the mic in today's special episode as she welcomes Montana Lower, founder of holistic skincare company Bluem, on the show.

Tahnee and Montana share a beautiful discourse around the raw nature of mothering, what it's like to be a mother and business owner/CEO, greenwashing in the beauty industry, using nature as medicine, trusting your body's inherent wisdom and letting your intuition guide the way. 

The women recount their journeys into motherhood, championing pregnancy and birth as portals into self-love, self trust and personal power.

Tahnee and Montana share passionate exchange on the medicinal actions of plants, both emphasising that natural lore will always reign supreme over the scientific model. 

Montana poses the question; is it nature backed by science or is it science backed by nature? Do we as a collective put our faith only in the word of a strategically measured metric or do we trust the innate knowing of the earth and the seeds that sprout into the flora of her nurturance?

An advocate for living life in alignment to your values, Montana is no stranger to making difficult decisions, choosing only to engage with practices and products that sustain and nourish the land and the creatures who occupy it. 

You can feel the integrity in each word Montana speaks, her energy is infectious and inspired, it's impressive to hear such grounded conviction in someone so young. 
 
I really enjoyed this one, I hope you do too.

"What is this conversation? Is it nature backed by science or is it science backed by nature? And for me, it's science backed by nature. Science is just speculating things. And yeah, we can come up with a bunch of clever solutions of why certain things happen, but nature knows so much more than we do."

- Montana Lower

Montana & Tahnee discuss:

• Montana's journey into motherhood. 
• The birth of Montana's company Bluem.
• Healing ancestral wounds & working with your family. 
• Greenwashing in the beauty industry.
• Mothering in business.
• Trusting in nature over science. 

Who is Montana Lower?

Montana is an environmental engineer, artist, activist, devoted mother, and founder of 'Bluem' (Holistic Health and Wellness) the Australian natural skincare brand committed to rewilding the beauty industry to heal the people and the planet. Launched in 2020, Bluem's profit-for-purpose model combats climate change and fosters a connection with nature, inspiring change among Montana's 250,000+ conscious community. Montana's diverse journey, from environmental engineering to international modelling, has been enriched by her global explorations, exposing the realities of foreign trade and the dark side of the beauty industry. These experiences have shaped Bluem's essence, redefining the narratives of beauty and paving the way for truly sustainable skincare. Montana envisions Bluem evolving beyond skincare, offering sustainable self-care for everyday needs that are long term healing solutions, uniting self-worth and the well-being of our planet in harmonious synergy.

Resource guide

Guest Links
Bluem Website
Bluem Instagram
Bluem Facebook
Bluem TikTok
Bluem Youtube
Montana Lower Instagram

Related Podcasts
Reclaiming Pureness and Sovereign Living with Jessika Le Corre (EP#96)
Deconstructing The Beauty Industry with Jessica DeFino (EP#152)

Connect With Us
SuperFeast Instagram
SuperFeast Facebook
SuperFeast TikTok

Check Out The Transcript Below:

 

Tahnee:

Hi, Montana.

Montana Lower:

Hello.

Tahnee:

Thank you for joining me on the SuperFeast Podcast.

Montana Lower:

Thank you so much for having me.

Tahnee:

It's actually a massive pleasure. You're my inaugural podcast guest because I have been off for 15 months, would you believe?

Montana Lower:

Amazing.

Tahnee:

I know. Probably longer actually. And yeah, this came through my email, the opportunity to speak to you. And for those of you who don't know, Montana, she's the founder of Bluem, but she's so much more than that. She is a really inspiring mother. She is an engineer, which I need to know about that.

Montana Lower:

In my past life.

Tahnee:

What is an engineer? I still don't really know.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, we can go into that.

Tahnee:

We also are both from Far North Queensland.

Montana Lower:

Yay. Country girls got to stick together.

Tahnee:

Yeah, if you ever hear me sound like a bogan, I always blame it on being from Far North Queensland.

Montana Lower:

Same. And if this brings that out of both of us, please forgive us.

Tahnee:

All the better, I think. Lets bring some bogan to this podcast. Yeah, so I mean, I do think a lot of people know you because pretty Insta-famous as well. No, I mean, I mean that with a lot of respect because it's bloody hard to be Insta-famous and I guess there's something I've observed is being involved with a lot of people who have big followings. It's like a double-edged sword and it comes with a lot of interesting territory. So it's so nice to get you here in the flesh and just be able to hear from you how you've created your beautiful business. And again, so I think we had kids, my daughter's six, yours is three and a half, so I think we're about three years apart. And I remember just seeing you doing elimination communication and just doing all these beautiful, really connected parenting things with your daughter. And I just was like, you're young and I just was like, wow, it's so beautiful to see a young mum really connected to that.

 

I think for a lot of us, it takes a few kids to really get the confidence to trust ourselves in those spaces and with these more intuitive styles of parenting. And you really had that from early on. So I wanted to start with how you feel like you got to be the mother you are. Big conversation.

Montana Lower:

And it's so special to know that you're doing this and returning back from such an amazing bubble of raising new life. And I feel really honoured to be here sharing that space with you too. Yeah, because it can be so daunting to return back to work.

Tahnee:

It took me 30 minutes to work out the tech.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, that's me every time I open my laptop every week, I'm like, wait a minute, this isn't Play-Doh. Of course.

Tahnee:

Or cookies.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, of course, all at home consciously made Play-Doh.

Tahnee:

With, what's that stuff? The tartare or whatever, like the foamy.

Montana Lower:

Yeah.

Tahnee:

We can share that recipe later.

Montana Lower:

So really honouring that space and how much more comfortable it feels to show up in those spaces when you know that you can look into the eyes of a woman who understands the messiness that is to show up for work or in any sort of professional capacity or linear place when you've come from the beautiful chaos that is raw mothering. And I feel like on that topic, the biggest thing that saved me with finding my way in motherhood, I was very young. My partner and I had only been together for a couple of weeks, we'd known each other for a few years, but Blue, my daughter, her name, Blue came through very strong and fast and she hasn't changed since. When you meet her you're like, oh yeah, you demanded to be born.

 

And I was 23, I think 24 by the time she was born. And looking back now I can see how young I was, but at the time it just really felt like she had chosen me and we were going on this journey together and I'd always been really ambitious and driven and had a lot of plans for my life, but I'd never really considered being a mum until it was happening. And so everything I do, I'm like, all right, this is what we're doing. And I put both feet in and just really jumped in there. And the thing that really saved me was that primal energy that came with motherhood. I was already on that journey of self-discovery and returning to nature, doing that through my work as well as my personal life. And so when I was pregnant, I was like, okay, this is touching the essence of birth, creation and death and all of these things at once. It's like the purest, most intensified way that you can do the work.

 

And my saviour in that time was nature. And so basically we packed up and moved into the bush and stayed there until we were ready to leave the bubble. And that was a good couple of years really. I haven't left that bubble, only a little bit. I come down from the mountain every now and then. But yeah, it was a very conscious time of retreating to nature and letting her guide me and listening to the way that she grows and prepares her soil and respects the harvest and mirroring all of these practises in my journey with raising my own little seedling. Just creating that mirrored journey was what guided me the whole way. So yeah, that's how I felt like.

Tahnee:

Our OG mama.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, exactly. Paying respects to the OG mama.

Tahnee:

I really relate to that fast and hard little girl first vibes because my daughter. Mason and I had only known each other for not quite as a small amount of time. We'd known each other about 18 months when we got pregnant. Oh no, not even. Yeah, my daughter was born on our two year sex anniversary. So it was less than that. There's nine months. She grew maybe 10 months. But she was the same. She came knocking and she was there.

 

And I remember when I was pregnant with her, when I finally kind of dropped into the magic and the just sheer joy of being pregnant, I dropped everything. I cut everything off for a whole month and just lived on this property and spent the whole time, there was no wifi, no phones, we were on spring water. A lot of the food was grown on the land we were living on. And I just walked and I slept in the sun and I meditated and I just transmissioned with the sun a lot. And I can go back to that in a heartbeat. And that's a solace and a place of great strength and support for me. And yeah, I wonder, you've moved on now you've got a business and life is busier and bigger. Do you still sort of find yourself retreating into that space inside of you, or do you still feel like external nature is your home? What's that for you?

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I mean, we're still very intertwined with nature, making sure that we're always living in expansive surroundings, probably for the main reason now that if we're inside too often my house just gets fully trashed. But yeah, definitely there's nothing that connects you to the inner world and inner voice being pregnant, and then that becomes a practice that you carry on with you throughout everything. And that's why I always think I'm so grateful that I had a baby quite young because I don't know what I would've been doing with my twenties without that voice. There's this amazing energy that comes with being, and of course it's perfect to have a baby at any age or not, but it's becoming pregnant at the start of my twenties journey really helped me navigate all of those big choices and life changes and initiations with that communication with my womb and inner voice and inner world.

Tahnee:

Looks like your compass is aligned from a really early age. It's really nice.

Montana Lower:

And a very strong connection to the things that actually matter.

Tahnee:

Which other of us spent their twenties, you know.

Montana Lower:

I mean, I could have done that too.

Tahnee:

… connected. It's all good.

Montana Lower:

I feel like that's going to be what my thirties are for.

Tahnee:

Or sometimes I say to Mason, when I'm an old lady, I'm going to be such a rat bag. Like Patsy from Ab Fab.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, it's really important to be the rogue grandma. That's my goal. I'll see you there.

Tahnee:

We can have our neighbouring farms. Yeah, I mean, I guess because I had a child at 31 and I think my twenties were the grist for the mill. I was not always happy and I had eating disorders and various challenges that I went through and overcame. I say the strength in that journey is what gave me the strength to mother. But I also hear that purity in your experience of having it so early and how that would be so healing as well. Because I feel like children accelerate, if you allow it to be the case, they can accelerate your healing and your growth and your expansion as a human incredibly quickly.

 

And how I just had another baby and I'm shocked at how much faster it becomes with each child. And we talked a little bit, Montana's recently just lost a baby, but also birthed a soul into her realm of support. A little angel to guide her. And I think that sense of, you can feel that speed. We were talking about this before the podcast, the acceleration of possibility, potential, manifestation, creation. It's huge. So can you speak a bit about that? How Blue catalysed that for you and anything you want to share about what's happening at the moment?

Montana Lower:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, holding pregnancy, and then giving birth, it's the most embodied way we can touch that creation energy, right? Apart from of course, dying. And nobody wants to talk about dying in this society unless of course you're a Mullum mum then we can talk about it. We'll make each other a drink, sit down and get to the depths of it. So I feel like with every birth and pregnancy, we get more practise at being on that journey of being like, okay, I'm along for the ride. I feel like the first time I was pregnant it was just like, oh my God, everything was just blowing my mind. Whereas then the second time I was pregnant, it was like, okay, this is still blowing my mind, but to a deeper level. And now the third time I've been pregnant, it's like, okay, I've been here before and I'm more practised and I'm a little less in the what the hell is about to happen. And more in the, all right, we're in this energy now and we're riding.

 

We're riding this wave, this tornado, it depends on where you're at. And so doing the pregnancy thing in those years where you were finding your way, I've been finding my way while also being pregnant, so I'm like my daughter in that regard we're just like, let's do it all right now and get it out of the way. But we never get it out of the way. We just have to go deeper, which I love going deep. So it's cool they're alive, but it's fine. But it's been a really big, big journey where I'm often finding when am I going to rest? When is the resting time?

Tahnee:

But I mean, you've created, I guess I don't know your journey as intimately as you obviously, but what I've seen is Bluem really catalysed a big leap in you taking responsibility for your income, your business. I feel like you moved from being someone who maybe was letting others dictate your work to you, creating a world for yourself, which that's the piece I think people don't understand, how hard it is to pivot from someone who people follow to someone who's a creative being in this universe. I know influencers create a lot and I don't want to.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, it's its own thing for sure.

Tahnee:

But I think to leverage and pivot how you have and to build something that's going to, I think, be a legacy to you and your daughter, that's huge. And I have been in that world and it's hard. It's so hard.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I feel like talking on those realms of really understanding the importance of your time and the power of physical manifestation, that came through so strong when I birthed Blue and it was like I didn't even think about it. It was like, okay, well I can't return back to the work I was doing before. I need to create something that's really on my own terms. And then still being in that birth portal, I feel like my practice of that, it was really a strong intention of what I wanted this business to do. And then just opening up to the miracle of birth, what is this going to be? And just allowing it to drop in. And so I'm sure there was a process, but as you know in those first few months after giving birth, everything's kind of a haze. So when I look back at that time, what created my business now was that strong intention and that really strong connection to physical manifestation and birth and just opening up to allow nature to do its thing.

 

And all of the pieces just slotted in around me. And then I had this thing that was going to protect my baby and I, and my family and provide for my family to allow us to be at home and be able to live a life in alignment with our needs and respectful of a mother centred community and to enable us to be reactive to our child and not force her into any sort of thing because it's more convenient for us.

 

It was like we were very open and responsive to her, and therefore the business has been created to be open and responsive for human needs. And that's everyone in the team. And since then, my humble beginnings of first starting Bluem on my own, we've been able to hire both of my brothers and one's already had a child and the other one's about to have one and hired my cousin as well. And all of our family has been involved in the process and it's just like, of course this amazing value aligned thing came in to help us all heal while also offering that gift and intention to the world.

Tahnee:

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And to have that coalesce with the family. Okay, so someone asked me this the other day and I'm going to put it to you. What about that saying you should never work with family. What do you have to say to that?

Montana Lower:

Yeah, if you don't want to look at your ancestral wounds and figure out your childhood triggers and resolve your traumas in the middle of the business meeting?

Tahnee:

Don't get your family into business.

Montana Lower:

Don't get your family involved and don't have an intimate connection with them either, because that's a part of life. It's not like it's always like that, but it is actually a really beautiful practise. Recently we all went over to Bali together and the backstory of this is before I even go here is, okay, so I'm sitting at the pool looking across from my brothers, our kids are running around, my cousin's there, and I'm having this moment of looking at them. And I just shot back into three, four year old me living in Fiji. My mum had just gone overseas with my brothers and I and my cousin and her mum were there as well, and they were supporting each other in business. And I'm sitting here thinking, okay, our family obviously has a thing for doing work in tropical places, but tell me this isn't ancestral healing right now. We're here recreating a pattern with a lot more harmony and balance and consciousness where this is a peaceful environment instead of whatever that was back then.

Tahnee:

Less peaceful.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, and it was just so healing. It was just like every moment is like that, and that's in the beautiful moments. And then there can also be a moment where we're problem solving together. And I'm the baby of the family, but I've always been the boss. I'm sorry boys, if you're listening. You know it's true.

 

Even our cousin will know it's true too, that's the funny dynamic out of all of it. I'm like, muah.

Tahnee:

She doesn't look like it. Secret, evil streak.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. It's like we all know what we're doing here, but our different communication techniques will come out and sometimes it will regress to how it was when we were younger. And then here we are as adults looking at each other eye to eye, being like, we are all connected to this beautiful thing that makes all of our lives possible. How can we show up in this dynamic from a conscious place or a more informed place as well as deeply knowing and respecting the person across from you and therefore everybody's vision has an opportunity to be heard because there's just such deep connection to and reverence for the soul inside of the other people at the table. So, if you don't want to do the work, don't work with your family, but if you're into that, it's a good thing to do.

Tahnee:

I mean, currently, we have Mason's two siblings here and we had my brother work for us for a few years. And I mean it's one of those things that I think it's kind of like having children, it just mirrors to you all the many and varied ways you still have to grow and all the opportunities you have to be more aware and more awake and to really check in with your integrity. And I think I've seen it only do wonderful things in terms of catalysing growth. But yeah, I definitely don't think it's easy. So I think it's one of those things that you choose, but it's like parenthood too.

Montana Lower:

And I mean everyone likes to think it's easier to work with machines and you don't have to consider people's personalities and human needs. Okay, that's surface level easy to some degree, but working with your family, and it doesn't have to be a biological family, but if you consider your work environment as a place where most of us spent most of our time, this can be a place where we really humanise our business. And when our business is humanised, then the customers feel that too. And it's not just a business, you're creating a movement. And with what we're doing, it's sharing medicine. So it's almost like it needs to be like that. That's how the nature lives on from the seed to the harvest through us out in the bottles, through the people and back to the earth. It's like that's how the continuing cycle happens.

Tahnee:

Well, I think that's really interesting. Mase and I, so probably he's had SuperFeast since 2011, so we're recording this in 2023. We're talking 12 years of business.

Montana Lower:

Can't wait to see us, we'rel ike three years in.

Tahnee:

Well, I'm really interested. I'm so interested in your experience and your journey as well because we have found there have been so many iterations of SuperFeast. If you'd spoken to me at the beginning of my journey with SuperFeast, even to now, it's evolved so much obviously as we've evolved, but also as we've tuned in deeper to SuperFeast's intention and its mission. And I remember first meeting Mason and he looked me dead in the eye and he's like, I'm ending degeneration. I was like, oh my God, that is such a big call to try and stop people degenerating. But recently he came to me and he's like, I'm ending preventable degeneration. I'm stopping. And that nuance of really drilling down into what is it at the core of what we're doing.

 

And so that sort of filters out into every way in which we interact and engage and the people that work with us. And it's such an interesting thing to watch because the closer we get to the essence and the core of SuperFeast, the more aligned we see the team become and we see the energy of the business shifts. And so have you noticed that with Bluem, what was your original seeding mission? What were you wanting to do?

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I mean I came from engineering, obviously.

Tahnee:

… I need to know about … Were you an environmental engineer?

Montana Lower:

Environmental and civil with a minor in architecture.

Tahnee:

… building big things.

Montana Lower:

I was into it. Yeah. So where do we start?

Tahnee:

… let's go a little bit back. So I googled Montana and she's in the paper for winning some.

Montana Lower:

It's a local paper.

Tahnee:

Yeah, sorry, the…, is it…Anyway, it's very cute. You can also Google it, but you obviously were a very good student because they were very happy with you.

Montana Lower:

There was nothing else to do in that little town. I needed to get myself out of there. I didn't have any money, no one was going to save me. I was like, you know what? I got this brain.

Tahnee:

My brain to get me out. Okay, so you're in …, you've done well at high school, you go to Brisbane. That's where everyone from Queensland goes. Is that what happened?

Montana Lower:

I think it all started from such a young age. I knew I wanted to build something that would impact the environment in a positive way, and that went through many different things for my art and my poetry and words. And then after a minor major Sims addiction, I decided I would maybe try architecture.

Tahnee:

I loved sims too, I'm a much better mother now.

Montana Lower:

And then I was in architecture and I realised that all the environmental decisions, not all of them, but the major ones were being passed off to the civil engineer. And so I thought, God, that looks really boring, but if that's the one that's doing-

Tahnee:

I'll do it.

Montana Lower:

Getting the sign off, then I want to do that. And so then I did that and I did a bunch of different jobs from vertical gardens to helping businesses refine their buildings to be more aligned with the environment from all different variables, from waste, to ecosystems, to communities, to water, whatever. And at the same time as doing that, I started modelling. And modelling was amazing, but there was one day in particular where I was coming from a shoot and I was wiping off my makeup, putting my glasses on, whacking my overalls on. I was having a Hannah Montana vibes moment, I was like no one must know my other reality.

Tahnee:

Superhero. So funny.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, because we're not going to get into the misogyny that's in engineering today, but there was an element of that where I'm like, if these guys know that I'm a model too, there's no hope for me. Yeah.

Tahnee:

Well, we showed them.

Montana Lower:

No. And so I was walking into uni, taking off my disguise as a model and getting ready to go into class to literally learn the calculations of calculating a complete carbon footprint of something and therefore global warming. And so with that fresh on my mind and in the scenario, I started to think like, wow, back then, nobody was thinking about the sustainable impact of fashion.

Tahnee:

So there's no B corp. We just did a carbon audit with a guy who … and he does your whole entire blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Montana Lower:

None of that. Or yes, from a backend, but nobody was applying it to the products that people were creating.

Tahnee:

And fashion.

Montana Lower:

And definitely not fashion. And definitely still the beauty industry is quite alarming with trying to create any new products and what the industry stands of sustainability and what everybody else, not everybody, but what common practise is accepting is the gold standard is actually still not good enough. But through that intersection, I started to work with more environmental brands and helping them get their message out.

Tahnee:

Because you were sort of doing ambassador. I remember seeing you go to India-

Montana Lower:

I was doing ambassadorship, yeah.

Tahnee:

And you were going to this waste piles with fashion.

Montana Lower:

Yes. So back then I was. I remember talking to my modelling agent and saying, I don't want to work with any brand that doesn't have sustainable initiatives. And they just thought, you're never going to get any work. They were like, you can't do that. We don't even know if we can represent you. We're not going to be able to get you enough work. And I did have to take a hit of what an easy salary was at the time. Until slowly the industry started catching up. I was definitely on the forefront of making people understand and making the hard choices in my life to align myself with integrity and those values to say, hey, it's not good enough. I'm not going to be the face of anything unless it's aligned with this environmental vision.

 

So that's where the intersection started to happen. And then throughout that journey, I just became really passionate about exploring fair trade and the reality about the products that we're using and really thinking into where they come from and who they were grown by and what is left in the community after this product is made and perhaps done with this area.

Tahnee:

And fair trade, I don't know, so I studied environmental science at uni and then sort of global poverty and development and all these other things and started learning about Nestle, and I was like, oh my God, it's all just a clusterfuck. But yeah, really still buying into this idea of organics. And certify fair trade, and I applied for a job at Oxfam, which I got, didn't end up taking and now being much older and probably a little more cynical, and even with SuperFeast, we started to go through the B Corp process thinking we would have to meet a certain standard, but it's actually just… I think, for a …yeah, exactly.

Montana Lower:

It can be, but it can also be an amazing resource to look into things further.

Tahnee:

And it made us do things that we weren't doing like a carbon audit. We had never done one, and it was really eye-opening. We ended up with seven waste streams, because we realised we could recycle so much more than we thought we could. So there was some really good stuff in that, but I guess one thing, a lot of the time people kind of appease themselves with the greenwashing or the marketing that is all over fashion, beauty, health especially. So yeah, I guess you've got a beauty company. How do you guys manage that? How did you do sourcing and all that stuff?

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I mean the thing with certifications and basically anything, any words that you see attached to brands, you realise that whoever's got the most money they can pay to say whatever they want.

Tahnee:

Yeah. I got told by a organic company, organic certifier, we could buy a certification basically that they could pay them. And I was like, well, no. I refuse.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. So I'm less interested. I mean, certifications are great when used responsibly, but I think the amazing thing with the greenwashing is that people have become desensitised to these big buzzwords and they more want to see what the reality of that is. And because I had this background with me as well as I'd supported a few brands through their B Corp certification, and at one stage I was designing a sustainable washhouse in Cambodia, and that just took me on its own journey. So I've been able to look at businesses from every aspect, I guess, from creation of the product to ambassadoring the product, to designing more efficient practises of the product.

Tahnee:

Such a great foundation.

Montana Lower:

So I didn't realise it was all preparing me to have this little fairy business, but yes, fantastic. And so I brought that with me as an inherent value of creating Bluem, is being a profit for purpose business. And yeah, so when I was designing what products do we want to make, it wasn't like a, let's test all of the fruits and flowers out there and decide which one's the best by scientifically comparing them all, it was like back in my intuition, all right, what soil am I standing on? I'm in Australia, what plants are native to this area? What can I go and see and touch with my own hands and look in the eyes of the person who is growing this and trust that that intention starts long before the seed is planted in the ground.

 

It actually starts in the community that's based around the land and what's the stories that the land holds. And if we start there and start really simple and just building it one by one, it became a really simple process of, all right, our finger line has grown a hundred kilometres down the road. Our Kakadu plum, the Gubinge, that we recently were able to go travel and see, that's the only thing grown not on this side. So when the pandemic happened, our whole business was able to keep running because everything was done in a 200, 300 kilometre radius.

Tahnee:

I was speaking to Che before and she's like, you guys had to jump the border so you could stay within the shipping lanes. So you could drive …

Montana Lower:

And I don't know many businesses that were able to do that because everything was created with the intention of what can I see and touch right here in this real world? And I was very passionate about maintaining that. So the only thing that wasn't grown right here and on the other side of the country, but still on this beautiful country is our Kakadu plum. And recently we were given the opportunity to go and meet the community, which we wanted to do ever since the start. But lockdown happened basically, it started at the start of everything. So we just had to trust the word that we had received on it, which was very strong integrity words. So I felt like we could go forward with it, but there was nothing like putting our feet on the earth and meeting the community and understanding the practises of the wild harvest and what it takes for the community to be able to harvest seasonally as well as to maintain the product supply and how this avenue of harvesting supports the whole community and has a ripple effect of the humans that live there.

 

And it just gave me such a stronger intention of why it's so important to work with real ingredients and high integrity ingredients. Because Bluem, a lot of people will say to me, I don't understand, it's like a miracle serum. I don't understand why it works so well. And I'm like, do you want the science?

Tahnee:

Or do you just want to know that it's real?

Montana Lower:

What is this conversation? Is it nature backed by science or is it science backed by nature? And for me, it's science backed by nature. Science is just speculating things. And yeah, we can come up with a bunch of clever solutions of why certain things happen, but nature knows so much more than we do. And being on the land and knowing that.

Tahnee:

Plants, man. Plants have a consciousness. My yoga teacher always says that humans and plants, yes animals, but they're connected to the earth. We're connected to heaven, and there's this download exchange that goes on. And that's been my relationship with herbs …

Montana Lower:

And it's all about synerginistic healing.

Tahnee:

And they want what's best for us and we're in service to them. And if we can kind of maintain the symbiosis, that's where the healing for humanity comes from, I think. And people get that from using your products, from using our products. And I think with science, something that frustrates me no end is people hook onto one active ingredient or one constituent, something like Reishi, which there's something over 800 unidentified constituents in Reishi, not to mention the stuff that we can't even measure yet, like the Qi, the prana, whatever you want to call it. Stop worrying about that stuff. How do you feel when you take it? How is it sourced? Who's growing it? What's it doing for their community? How's it working?

Montana Lower:

Is it still alive by the time it gets to me and you whack the label in the top of it, it's like, I know it was Reishi once, but is it still?

Tahnee:

Yeah, and even, I don't know, there's just so many, I don't know, ineffable factors, I guess, and I think people are so used to being guided by their minds in terms of their consuming and their habits, and it's like, let's start tapping into something else. Plants are good, bodies these are great.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. It's like all these other beauty skincare businesses are out there telling you what you want to hear. And it's like, I don't ever want to be that with Bluem. It's like, yeah, it is a bit of a miracle potion because it's like what is coming into play here when you engage with such a high integrity product is so much more than you can ever describe. And I feel like with Bluem, naming them by the name first, not calling them a miracle elixir or glow or whatever, it's like this is the Kakadu plum, this is the finger lime. And it's just building that trust that people have with nature where they're reaching to a plant to help heal them.

 

And if it's as simple as that and maybe that relationship in itself to people who have tried every chemical under the sun and their skin is so much worse than when they started, that changes the relationship from I need more and I don't care what it is, just put it on my face to, oh, I am just in a simple relationship with nature. I trust in nature to heal me and I trust myself to help heal it as well. And that's the synergy of healing that happens. And sometimes that is more powerful than whatever is in that bottle.

Tahnee:

I was going to say it's almost like the gateway into that, sort of relating on a bigger, more spiritual level with everything. And I think, it's kind of, I don't want to sound like you are being sneaky, but it's this really clever way of getting people to connect on a much deeper level because the vanity factor, so many people are worried about this external representation, and that's what Mase it sometimes it's a bit sneaky, but it's like, look, just put some in your coffee, some mushrooms and just drink them and then see what happens. Because we're sort of slowly seeding into people.

Montana Lower:

We're just these little sneaky earth warriors. We're just doing the work.

Tahnee:

I remember growing up in the era of crochet bombing and people that would throw seeds into roundabouts to have flowers the next spring.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, that's definitely our tribe, keen.

Tahnee:

That's my vibe. I'm like, let's just sneakily get it into people and let's see what happens. And I find, I don't know about you guys, but for us, we've recently put our herbs in capsules, which we resisted for a decade-

Montana Lower:

Because of the way that pills-

Tahnee:

Exactly, all of it. And even tasting the herbs to me is an integral part, even though sometimes they taste like arse. But that's your body communicating, all of those constituents are telling your body something. But we were also like, you know what? What's better than people tasting ashwagandha is people taking ashwagandha.

Montana Lower:

I was just about to say that.

Tahnee:

And it took us a while to get there. And all through my postpartum, I'm happily swallowing capsules of ashwagandha.

Montana Lower:

Because you can have more of it.

Tahnee:

And it does taste absolutely terrible. But I think that too, with what you guys are doing is you are introducing native plant foods, you're introducing medicine that's been a part of this culture at least 60,000 years. These are not new things, and you're putting it in a modern serum sort of format. But that idea of working with indigenous herbs, that connects people to Australia, it connects them to country, it connects them to caring for our indigenous populations, it sort of very subconsciously starts to work away at the programming. And I think that's so important.

Montana Lower:

And I think you touched on something really interesting there. It's like the power of being in the commercial space because there is no shortage of amazing people doing even more high integrity products of what we're doing, but it's very niche. They can only make 30 bottles at a time. Saying they're growing it themselves because every week I'm basically going into the office like all right so when can I start my flower farm and they're like, you got to chill out. It'll happen.

Tahnee:

…. Make it happen. Anyway.

 

Montana Lower:

So there are amazing people that work with plants and in a very concentrated high intention way, but that medicine isn't making it out to the commercial space. So when we keep in our niche and don't expand past the echo chamber, there becomes these two worlds of the modern world, I guess, the westernised world, the industrialised world that's just believing.

Tahnee:

The over culture, whatever.

Montana Lower:

That's believing the mainstream, right? We've got two worlds, the mainstream that's basically just getting fed the same information by the same people at the top of the companies that are having the same messaging, but calling it different bottles and making them compete against each other. And they're actually all the same. So you got that, or you got us niche little hippies over here that all the niche little hippies go to. But the real power is when you can combine the two, the bridge between the worlds, and exist in that space where the person who may be taking medication or retinol or these very harsh chemicals on their skin can bridge into that softening, into healing through plants, and suddenly their whole world opens up. So it's like the same as the ashwagandha in the capsule. It's like you've just got to start with reminding people that nature is a much older wisdom and medicine than any of the pharmaceutical industry that we've been forced to believe is the most effective.

Tahnee:

… have made pharmaceutical … plants anyway. That annoys me all the time.

Montana Lower:

It started from plants.

Tahnee:

And I'm like, ... Where do you think these things come from? … moulds, fungi, plant kingdom. And I think that the world bridging to me, I think that's something you've really mastered in the sense of, if I think about, okay, yeah, you're an engineer, but you're also a model and you're maybe an influencer, but you're also using that to raise awareness of something that's really important. And then you're building, yes, what could be called a skincare company, but it's actually about accessing plant magic. That to me, to be able to dance in those realms, is really hard and also really admirable and cool. And I think about you're also a mother, so I want to talk about how you dance motherhood and business.

Montana Lower:

The two ultimate polarities.

Tahnee:

Honestly, if you want to drive yourself nuts. I've had times when I'm like, okay, I have to put on this brain and then I literally have to take off my brain and then be in my mothering brain which is not a brain and I sometimes feel like a crazy person, so I'd love to know how you do it.

Montana Lower:

Well, I feel like along with the other many deaths that came with motherhood...

Tahnee:

Cheers to that.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, exactly.

Tahnee:

Cheers our spring water.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, it came with the death of the patriarchy. And not to be too dramatic, but the most frustration I have felt was trying to show up in my business from the masculine and patriarchal, colonised, capitalistic way that I was trained throughout my years of existing in modern society was the only way to obtain success. And allowing my business to mirror my learnings of motherhood and trusting that actually I don't need to be on my daughter's case 24/7, striving for consistency, productivity, and efficiency and all of these things. I don't have to be doing that all the time.

 

And yet she still grows and she's still abundant and she's still a miracle. So how can I trust that that creation energy can extend to this professional world and have an opportunity to rewrite this not only for myself, but mothers everywhere and hopefully people everywhere. And that has looked like these two worlds staring each other face to face. Me just being so frustrated with myself of being like a walking contradiction because the truth of the patriarchy or that linear way that we've been taught to perceive business success still exists in my brain, and yet here is a new reality and how can I bridge them together to learn from each other?

 

And the moment I started to say, I'm a mum, how does this space nurture me? The moment that frustration, that guilt, all of those should do's, and I'm going to call it the cleanliness, faded away and it still comes up, but I'm way more practised now to be in the chaos of the creation energy and just be like, this is alive. This is what being in alive business looks like. And again, that wouldn't be possible if I didn't have a family business. No one would want to work with me so I had to prove a concept.

Tahnee:

So in terms of your role in Bluem, obviously you are the creatrix and the face and the founder. What are you doing day to day? How does that look for you in terms of showing up?

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I feel like it really fluctuates depending on how family, personal life is going, which I feel really blessed to allow room for living. But my main role is just staying in touch with the integrity and the core mission, which is to re-wild the beauty industry and bringing those teachings to the team. So my brothers, I'm in business with my brothers now who, really, I see them as holding the masculine for our business, and I'm able to show up in the feminine. And so they make sure that things is still ticking on and consistent and all of these things the business does need to keep thriving throughout the fluctuations of chaos. And I'm more bringing inspiration and working with plants and investigating different places and sources and ways that we can utilise these plants. So there's that. It's more musing.

Tahnee:

And in terms of touch points with the team, are you mostly remote?

Montana Lower:

Yeah. I go into the office. I try to make it once a week, but yeah, we touch base. It can be daily sometimes depending on the productivity of what's going on at the moment. But yeah, it's mostly a couple hour work call once or twice a week if I don't end up making it into the office, which will depend on care that I have for Blue. She comes in too. She likes to show everybody how to pack boxes.

Tahnee:

I was going to say…

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I call her the morale booster. You get all the girls around her like, oh.

 

Montana Lower:

No, she's really good. She's really good. And she knows how to spell and write her name too. And it must be such a tripped out experience to be like, that's my name. I'm like, yeah, baby girl, it's all for you.

Tahnee:

My big one's really good now she is done with warehouse systems, but my toddler comes in and he's like … out the space and makes such a mess, … sorry but everyone's like, he's so cute.

Montana Lower:

Well, happiness really does increase efficiency. So yeah, I feel like I'm blessed to now be in the position … I realised early on that I couldn't do everything on my own, so I outsourced everything that someone else could help me do and just stayed in my position of guiding. And as clear and less cluttered my vision can be, the more we can respond intuitively.

Tahnee:

I don't want to turn this into a business podcast, but staying in your genius… call that, but knowing what your strengths are and then really designing and being able to give yourself permission to do that. I think-

Montana Lower:

It's really hard.

Tahnee:

It's really hard. And I have been on a massive journey with that where the conditioning around even just to be across everything, and it's like it's actually, especially the size of our business now, it's impossible. And it took me a really long time to learn that … you're doing it much faster than me. But just to really know what you can contribute and where your value is to the company and to the mission and the goal of what the business is trying to achieve. … You're perpetuating all the unnecessary …

Montana Lower:

Matrydom isn't helping any of us. And so recently my journey has been more about going to visit Herbalists and Alchemists and really getting excited about the process and different innovative processes of how we're extracting the plants and the plants that we're working with.

Tahnee:

So what's coming up.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. So we're doing a brand refresh because the bottle that Bluem's in, love it. But a friend designed it and I put it in a bottle that was there.

Tahnee:

I've been through that journey too.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure when we first launched it was like DM to purchase. Now we have a website.

Tahnee:

People love being on that journey with you. We still get people that write to us who are like, oh, I used to buy off Mason at the market.

Montana Lower:

And so now that we've been able to grow a bit and invest more into, now that we have a proper website, it's not like me on the customer service being just trust the plants.

Tahnee:

They'll come sometime.

Montana Lower:

For me, it's just me on the emails being like, why is this person waiting? Why can't this person wait a week for it? I'm like, it takes me ages to get it done. Anyway, so now we've been able to invest into really intentional packaging that mirrors the same sustainability initiatives. We've removed the stickers, it's just plant-based inks and really taken the glue out of the boxes and it's all post-consumer recycled materials. And it's still not at the end state where our dream is that anything we create, well, you could chuck it in the garden and it'll decompose. So we have that with our konjac sponges. It comes from a vegetable goes back into the earth. I'm like, okay, that's one. It's done. But I want that to be across the whole business. But there are some limitations there, especially in regard to us being a small privately owned business that isn't looking for big capital investment that doesn't allow us to create new moulds and technologies.

 

So we're doing it. There's a pathway there, and we're finally able to take those first few steps. And the brand refresh is so sexy, it's so beautiful. I'm a very visual person. And so I'm really excited to have it be an experience that I believe also includes a lot more of the masculine, because a lot of people say to us, do you do it for men as well? I'm like, well, do you have skin? And also my inspo for Bluem was men with their skin routine, which they hardly use.

Tahnee:

… was like, hang on, why is your skin so good?..., oil on it once a week or something.

Montana Lower:

Exactly. And that was my introduction to intuitive based skincare. I'm creating something that your skin isn't going to freak out if you don't have it every day. It's something that's like having a compounding effect with your already alive organism that is your skin. And so I believe the refresh lends itself to a more unisex feel as well as being very closed looped and responsible with the environment.

Tahnee:

To do it when you only have two products.

Montana Lower:

Yes, exactly. And soon we won't just have the two products. So up until now, it's been, and we will still continue this messaging where the simplicity is key because a lot of the time people are like, I've just started using Bluem. Nothing's ever worked like this. My skin has never been so clear. I'm like, yeah, it's probably because your skin isn't overstimulated and it's just working with one plant. And that's why my passion is to stay with the one key hero ingredient. And it's much like what you do as well. It's like some can combine it all, and there's a brilliance in that. But just again, moving away from that conversation of more is more and coming back to simplicity and room to breathe and giving my body an opportunity to express its own human genius.

 

There's so much power in that too. So our new products will be in support of that. In the core range is still the serum and biodegradable sponge, and that's basically a two-step beauty routine. And I don't even do both of those things every day, but every now and then we do want something extra or it's like had a cold snap, or maybe it's a warm snap and our body is calling for something else. And I was also seeing Bluem people sharing, and some people are just like, yeah, I threw out everything and now I just use this. And I'm like, yeah, girl or guy. But then I was also seeing it beside other beautiful products, but products that I know don't have the same transparency journey as well. So I'm like, okay, how can we recreate sustainable self-care solutions for everyday needs while still maintaining this simplistic messaging? So we're introducing an oil, which is so nice.

Tahnee:

Layering your serums with oil is really beautiful.

Montana Lower:

Pretty lush. It's pretty lush. And I've been doing it myself, yeah, and then sometimes the oil is too much, too much. The other day I was doing oil every day. I've been going through a lot hormonally, and I'm just trying to go back into that more is more juice me up.

 

Montana Lower:

Anyway, I'm using the oil every day and then I start getting these little white bumps and stuff on my face and I'm like, okay, what do I do when my skin starts to freak out? I move away everything and just return back to my konjac sponge and finger lime. Next day gone. And I'm like, all right, now I'm just going to be bringing in the oil every one or three days. So there's that. And we've also got a really amazing gentle cleanser that's coming, which is something that's so underestimated in a beauty routine. At the moment, just having the gentle cleanser and working with filtered water, which not a lot of us have access to, especially for on our face.

 

 So I encourage people to get out into nature and get at least alive water because a lot of people we're doing it with chlorinated water or whatever from the shower. So this provides an opportunity to, it's a mist and it works with, a lot of people think, a really effective cleanser is something that you really cleanse and you take it off and your skin is stripped and dry and you're like this and you're like, that's a really clean cleanser.

Tahnee:

… I can't remember the brand.

Montana Lower:

It was like the apricot one or something.

Tahnee:

You just feel like…

Montana Lower:

Yeah. And maybe after a week camping or something, sometimes you're really craving that feeling. But most of the time if you're doing that every day, you're actually stripping what your body is naturally producing. And then you're having to overcompensate with something foreign that a lot of people aren't even sure what that is.

 

Montana Lower:

Exactly. It's like take it out so we can charge them for what their body is already doing. So with our cleanser, it's all about the plants that we're working with. You spray it on and it gently, the water is ionic, so it bonds with the metals that are in the dirt in your face and slowly draws it out while also adding plant actives at the same time. So it's a really refreshing mobile kind of spray. I have it in my basket all the time, especially I had it when we went out to the desert to go to the Kimberley because it was so sweaty and hot and easy spritz of cleanliness for my face and refreshing. And then that combo of the water and the water-based serum and then layering the oil on top of it. That's the perfect combo.

Tahnee:

So some people think oils actually don't moisturise. … they just kind of put a barrier on.

Montana Lower:

They're a barrier. I feel like the water and the oil together is deeply moisturising. And that's why the gentle cleanser is so amazing too because the composition of the water droplets are actually perfectly designed where it's equal parts water and oil. So in every molecule it's got water and oil. So you're doing that in one motion. Exactly. So yeah, it's so funny because I didn't come from, as you know, North Queensland.

Tahnee:

… sweaty. I don't know. I remember moving to Newcastle down near Sydney, I was like, well, why's my skin all flaky and why am I tight? And I just didn't understand caring for my skin in a different climate.

Montana Lower:

And I think what a lot of people don't understand too, and what I struggled to understand and have learned throughout this process of trying to make a fair trade ethical ingredient in large scale with people that aren't used to that kind of transparency and honesty. Your general moisturiser. When I say moisturiser, you're probably thinking a white whipped cream style thing. Well I looked at that and I thought, what a nature that does this. What is it? Is this plant sap? I don't think plants sap you can put on your face. How can I make a natural moisturiser? And I was trying and trying all these different formulations and they were like, it's not possible. They still kept putting these enzymes and emulsifiers and these things in.

 

… moisturiser. Then you've got to emulsify oil and water together with an emulsifier.

Montana Lower:

And it all came about from the industrial revolution where we've all been made to believe you need a moisturiser, you need a blender. I'm like, come on, nature must have you go to the rainforest. I'm not having any issue with moisturising here. What are they doing? And so that's where I started being like, okay, we're not doing a moisturiser. We're doing an oil.

Tahnee:

So you are basically saying if you use your water base serum first, you're getting your hydration. And then the oil's kind of locking that in.

Montana Lower:

It's locking it in and they bond together to provide a really deep nurturing and nourishing.

Tahnee:

So many layers, I think that's….

Montana Lower:

And the whole basis of the water-based serums and the cellular extraction process that we utilise is so that it has the capacity to deeply penetrate the skin and not just sit on the surface.

Tahnee:

Well, so I started using your Kakadu one and I don't know, after having the baby, I felt like my skin was just a bit rough and just a bit funny. And yeah, I feel like it was like a week and Mason's like, then he's using it. I'm like, no. Mine. That made such a difference. And the only thing I noticed was, yeah, I did end up using the oil as winter really kicked in because I felt my skin dry out really badly.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. Well, have you used the finger lime yet?

Tahnee:

No.

Montana Lower:

It's such a game changer, even because … is so amazing, or the … depending on where.

 

Montana Lower:

So everyone's talking about the vitamin C and the Kakadu plum it's the highest producing vitamin C plant in the world apparently. And so when you see that and the antioxidants and it's an incredible serum and plant to be working with, and the finger lime it hasn't had the same marketing boost that the Kakadu has. So I even had this internal bias of I like the plant. It's growing locally. I love the fruit. I really connect with this plant. They're delicious. Tick. But yeah, I guess I had this inner programming of thinking, unless it's like an oil or deeply thick or whatever, it's not going to provide me the hydration that I need.

 

The finger lime is so lightweight, you can hardly tell that it's on, all of the serums. You can't feel them on your face. That's also a thing I'm very passionate about. And it comes with this feeling of it's like one to three little droplets, like tears basically on the skin. What is this going to do?

Tahnee:

It's good value. That's what I think, because I've spoken to a few people and they're like, oh, it's 80 bucks or whatever. Covers your whole face.

Montana Lower:

And it's so little. I even still have this thing sometimes where I'm like, what is this little thing going to do for me?

Tahnee:

… Come on. And now I'm like, … little bit. You sort of realise it's not more, …got more, is it more … actually this just being really intentional and consistent.

Montana Lower:

Introducing that wisdom to the body and then the body can adapt. It's adaptogenic skincare. Yeah. But yeah, so the finger line is actually deeply hydrating. So I'll drop you in some because Yeah. Yeah. So it really helps with the hydration in a way that I still get surprised by. Yeah.

Tahnee:

I think when you've had kids, I think that's something I love. When you share your journey with Bluem, you've been through three pregnancies, you've been through those hormonal shifts. It's wild what your body goes through. And I think if you've got something that works and it's consistent, and that's just for me, it's like I know I've got my herbs, I've got JING, I've got ashwagandha, I've got it's herbs I will lean into when I'm really wobbly, and then I can kind of maintain my stability and my centre as much as possible in our chaotic lives. And it's the same with, I don't want to think about my skincare, I just want to grab something.

Montana Lower:

Especially as a mum, it's like if I can get through my beauty routine or whatever, my morning ritual without someone screaming at me, I'm just going to broadly say someone. I'm just aiming for no one screaming at me while I'm doing my morning ritual. If no one screams in my morning ritual, then I'm onto a winner. So that's where it started. I'm like, okay, so I've got about a 30 secong window, so that's all I've got. I'm looking at myself, I'm like, God damn I'm tired and I don't want to run into everyone today who says, you look tired. I'm going to be whacking on some Kakadu plum even. This is a trader inside the knowledge. You get the Kakadu plum just under the eyes for an eye serum and then finger lime everywhere else. Yes. Because the Kakadu plum is like that plumping and brightness.

Tahnee:

I don't feel like I ever noticed my under eyes until this baby who doesn't sleep at night. And I'm like, I know …

Montana Lower:

I don't see it. But yeah.

Tahnee:

… you start to be like, oh, I'm not just waking up fresh every day like I used to.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, let's lean into the plants.

Tahnee:

… that sounds so exciting. So I guess we should probably end there, but I want to direct people to Bluem website. So it's B-L-U-E-M.com.au. Do you guys plan to go-

Montana Lower:

Yeah.

Tahnee:

Bigger?

Montana Lower:

Yeah.

Tahnee:

… hand gesture implies bigger.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. We're growing at an organic pace.

Tahnee:

It's very similar to ours. We self-funded every step of our adventure so yeah, we've recently launched. We've launched in America at the start of COVID which … stupid. Mason, he was the first person to be locked out of Australia, basically.

Montana Lower:

Oh great.

Tahnee:

It was pretty funny. But yeah, I guess I know that journey of you need to find the resources and … don't grow too fast to knock yourselves back a thousand.

Montana Lower:

The trick is to try not to grow too fast. I think we haven't even been able to move into wholesaling properly, which we will be doing in the brand refresh. But yeah, just trying to keep up with our online orders and connected with our inner database. We still sell out all the time, even though one of my brothers is so into the numbers and predicting things. I'm like, look at him trying to predict magic. That's so cute.

Tahnee:

… thousand times. Yeah. Okay. So Bluem.com, Instagram, it's your main socials platform?

Montana Lower:

Yeah. Bluem_au. I'm sure we exist elsewhere. No, I don't TikTok, but I'm sure there's a Bluem TikTok.

Tahnee:

… You'll be sharing all the journey with the finger lime.

Montana Lower:

Yeah. I love the newsletter as a way to connect with people. I do like a founder's email.

Tahnee:

It was something I was so impressed with to be so early on in the game and have such a great, I don't know, it really feels like a community and that sense of connection.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, it's like a self-love club. That's how it started.

Tahnee:

And it's really beautifully done. I really enjoyed reading those.

Montana Lower:

Cute.

Tahnee:

… oh, that's really lovely. We're still trying to work out our newsletter and it's like 13 years.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, it's probably harder at that point.

Tahnee:

And you can really tell that people get so much value out of being connected to you and your journey, so it's really beautiful to witness that.

Montana Lower:

Thank you.

Tahnee:

Can I get your personal account if people don't know.

Montana Lower:

Montana Lower.

Tahnee:

I'll put all of that in the show notes. And like I said, I actually use Montana's as Kakadu serum, not the finger lime and the konjac sponge is great. And actually we loved your soap as well.

Montana Lower:

Yes. Yeah, the underdog soap is so good. Yeah. I forget to mention the soap just because I'm like, it's soap, but it's a transparent integrity based soap as well.

Tahnee:

… It's a beautiful, old, wonderful cleansing tool.

Montana Lower:

And our soaps is linked to our give back programme as well. So we're really strong in the philanthropy, I guess, or the give back programme of our business. So yeah, I love the soap, I think because I just have it everywhere. I don't mention it, but it's used for the face and body, so it's a zero waste solution to that.

Tahnee:

… Kids that's really gentle.

Montana Lower:

Exactly.

Tahnee:

Really cool.

 

Amazing. Well, thank you. I won't keep you from Blue for too much longer.

Montana Lower:

Thank you.

Tahnee:

… need her Mummy back. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know it's hard as a mom to get out and do these things.

Montana Lower:

Yeah, you too. I feel really honoured that it was your first episode back.

Tahnee:

Well, yeah. Thanks again Montana.

Montana Lower:

Thank you.