Personal Transformation and Purpose with Nick Perry (EP#153)

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Mason: (00:00)

Nick, thanks for coming back into the pod room with me.

Nick Perry: (00:03)

Well, absolute honour and pleasure to be here, mate. I was just saying it was 2019 the last time, so it's been a while.

Mason: (00:14)

2019-

Nick Perry: (00:17)

November.

Mason: (00:18)

... that was November, wasn't it? Yeah.

Nick Perry: (00:18)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). A lot happened, man. A lot has happened.

Mason: (00:22)

Yeah. Well, it makes it even more relevant.

Nick Perry: (00:25)

Yeah.

Mason: (00:25)

I know your work continues to go and supporting the men, supporting the boys.

Nick Perry: (00:30)

Yeah, absolutely.

Mason: (00:31)

And I'm sure we've seen a bit of an exposing two years of the need and necessity to get our ducks in a row, as we were talking about when we're having that swim this morning.

Nick Perry: (00:45)

Yeah. Yep yep. That was really cool and very refreshing to chat with you about like ducks in a row. And the terminology for me is getting the I sorted before we get too invested and entangled in the we and the all aspects of life and relationships.

Mason: (01:11)

Well, so tell me about, I know you've got your, your course developing and it's always evolving. But then I know you've got your coaching services and your mentoring services. But I know you do have that awareness of bringing a harmony of the many areas to just start tuning into and checking into when it comes to health, which is... It's much more difficult than people think to bring the smorgasbord and the platter of the various modules and elements that are required when you're really dipping into taking on some responsibility for your health in all areas.

Mason: (01:49)

And it's not just like, "Okay, tick this off and tick this off and tick off." It's finding which one is it the... How intensely do you jump in the deep end of each of these things? What's an appropriate way to start? And then where does that fit in the larger picture? As you know, it's a huge task to take to deliver it. So where are you at with it at the moment?

Nick Perry: (02:12)

Personally?

Mason: (02:13)

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nick Perry: (02:18)

Reinventing myself personally. My identity has evolved as I've stepped into being a father, and that's changed everything. If I were to summarise what I'm getting at, it's fucking changed everything. And that doesn't mean my foundations have changed like thoughts, breathing, hydration, nutrition, movement, sleep, if I were to summarise what we need to work toward being in mastery of regarding health. But the environment that I balance that with, the environment that I conduct that symphony has changed completely from being like an amphitheatre to being like a shopping mall to offer a taste of what it feels like in this adjustment phase that I'm in right now.

Nick Perry: (03:20)

It's like, "Wow." Being present enough in a relationship to keep the balance, and peace, and the harmony there has definitely been... It's been a stretch now that there's a baby with its high needs in the mix. My business is doing better than ever, and that's something that I love and I'm really passionate about and really excited to nurture and grow. And then somewhere in that, family, relationships, business, somewhere in that is me.

Nick Perry: (04:02)

The longer I go without prioritising myself, the more dishevelled I become, and that impacts those are the three priorities, those are the three key aspects of life. That's really where the main adjustment is, is like, how do I nurture my own health? How do I embody and apply these foundations most of the time? So I'm feeling confident to embrace the daily challenge in the daily grind.

Mason: (04:39)

How do you approach that? Because I think that's something like everyone listening, I'm sure relates to that, losing yourself and your commitment to yourself a little bit as life gets busy. And you're the last one that you nourish. Especially the men listening will relate, but how do you approach that while still staying... A lot of around here, it's like, "Oh, that's it. I'm checking out and it's me time." And it's like I'm going into self care mode. And it's almost at the sacrificing of other responsibilities.

Mason: (05:19)

So how do you see... What's the goo and the space between all those elements of our commitments that allows us to dedicate that time for ourselves so that we're better at showing up for other responsibilities?

Nick Perry: (05:33)

That's the essence, is like when my cup is full, I have more to give. We get that idea, but filling that cup is easier said than done. And I think one part to speak into that question, it's the quality of presence. And we chatted about this earlier this morning. It's not always volume of time that equates to a full cup. Because I can be diffuse in my awareness whilst having my "self care time." But if it's half an hour that I gift myself where I take that half an hour seriously.

Nick Perry: (06:18)

I take it seriously enough to take nothing seriously and I do put my phone down. And I let people's problems be their problems completely and entirely. And I learn to really be in devotion to myself fully for half an hour, then four hours here, eight hours here, 12 hours here those days that happen and managing those responsibilities inside that bigger volume of time is easier. Because I came home to myself, which means I'm not resentful. I'm not resentful for the other things that need my presence.

Nick Perry: (07:01)

And I think that's the first response that I feel to speak into is, how honest am I being in my self care time will determine how nourishing it truly is for me. That's one aspect.

Mason: (07:23)

I think last time you were on, we chatted a lot about those pillars you were talking about, sleep, nutrition, hydration. I know people will be like, "Yeah, yeah, cool. Know that." But when men are coming to you and they're getting into their health, what are those little extracurricular elements or pillars? We've talked about like being able to have difficult conversations, those kinds of... What are those other little juicy bits and bobs for guys listening here going like, "Yeah, I'm starting to delve into my life, my health kick here"?

Mason: (08:02)

For you, what are those little exciting, little [inaudible 00:08:04]? Maybe it's the core, maybe it's the extracurricular stuff. What are those things that you guys need to be aware of and jumping into?

Nick Perry: (08:12)

Well, what I see men get most value from when I'm coaching them, things like the value of congruency, what I think, what I say, what I do. And being very aware, am I being congruent here in whatever it is that I'm doing, and in particular, in my bigger conquest, my bigger life mission? I wouldn't really rate that as a nuance, but that is an anchor point when I'm starting to integrate optimising my hydration or cleaning up my diet. Or getting the right dose of movement into my life weekly, whatever that is.

Nick Perry: (09:07)

Overshooting puts me out of congruency. Overcommitting, saying, "All right, I'm going to train six days a week, 45 minute sessions. Meditate half an hour, seven days a week because I know this is good." And it's just unbelievably unrealistic. We cannot be congruent with that intention in that goal, so fall out of integrity. We're not being impeccable with our word and our self-esteem takes a hit. And the people that we're around see us or feel our energy deflate and shrink and contract.

Nick Perry: (09:50)

And it's so invisible a lot of the time to somebody that's new to that and he is feeling puffed up and inspired to make changes, but doesn't have somebody there supporting them to qualify, is that goal realistic? So the subtlety is in essence to set yourself up for a win is so fucking important. One, because you'll get done the thing you need to get done. It's like, I need to do a little bit of resistance training.

Nick Perry: (10:22)

I just need to keep that muscle mass on me, I don't necessarily need to build. But I need the density, it helps me stay grounded. And when I do meet that, when I say, "Okay, Wednesday morning and Saturday morning, I'm going to it 45 minutes." I can do that. My self-esteem starts to build, and then that impacts everything. It reverberates outwardly. But part of this is communication, which is another one of those subtle aspects that needs to be an awareness.

Nick Perry: (11:01)

Because if I have a family and I have a business and I have these quarters of my kingdom that I need to invest energy into, there's people that I need to consider. So if I were to all of a sudden get up in the morning, not communicate to my partner, "This is what I'm doing now," And ask her for her support. And ask how I can reciprocate that support in another way. There's a failure to communicate the intention, and that's going to create disruption and disharmony, because it's going to shake up the dynamic as it is too much.

Nick Perry: (11:45)

So again, this is is part of the process, is learning how to communicate, learning how to identify my needs. And then go that step further and ask for the people in my life for their help, for their support in meeting those needs.

Mason: (12:03)

This is in the best way possible wreaking of like, all right, how do we find harmony of how we're engaging with our weight training? So you are talking about it in the sense of like, all right, you need to be realistic. If you try and do it six days a week, 45 minutes, maybe it's not realistic. And for most people, I think they'll resonate with that and be like, "Yeah, probably..." I've recognised that part of me that goes, "Yeah, I'm going to do this." And then you go, "Oh actually, that was shooting for the stars."

Mason: (12:34)

Maybe you land on the moon, that's still good. Some people like that approach. I personally don't like that approach a lot of the time, because I do feel like the failure side of things. That's one way that's maybe not the approach. The other approach is maybe you go, "That's it, I'm going six days a week." And you say it, you don't know why you say it. You that commitment. And because you're someone that's so obsessive, you go and do it and create an excess.

Mason: (13:00)

And I know a lot of people will go like, "Well, that's just a that's just because that person's a legend and they always do what they say they will do." Personally, I think that would be an excess for me and not be in harmony or balance. Because there's most likely many other things I need to be doing in my life that I could be committing to. And just because I randomly said it or the course said it, "You need to do this," I just go in. Maybe it's good every now and then just to go blow past my limits, but going back to the core and then going like, "What's the purpose of this? Now what's my purpose here?"

Mason: (13:33)

And then that, whether it's that resistance training, allow that to find like an appropriate place within my timeline within my culture. I'm interested to talk to you about this, we've chatted... I think we've danced around talking this morning, and I definitely I just wanted to make sure we do talk about it on the podcast. The idea of just because something's good, there's like, do we have to be like that all the time? You need to get into a certain extent eating in a healthy way.

Mason: (14:06)

You need to be to a certain extent, I want to talk about these other qualities of like calling people out in their bullshit and standing firm that you mentioned this morning. In the personal development scene, you say, "Guys, a lot of the time, I'm holding everyone to integrity and I'm going to be that shining light and not let anyone ever get away with their shit." It's like, at what point, first of all, I know a lot of men have a deficiency and their capacity to hold the line and call bullshit out.

Mason: (14:33)

And I know a lot of guys who it's like, "Dude, you're at a party, relax." Just this is also quite excessive and quite boring. And so again, it hasn't fallen into harmony and it becomes, just because it's good, more must be better. And that's my identity now. So I'm keen again, the fabric of... Is it finding that purpose so all these little extracurricular things you're teaching people can fall into line and fall into a rhythm and in a harmony based on something more the core?

Nick Perry: (15:12)

Yes. Yes, it is. Great. Such a cool question. And yeah, that overzealous, pulling out my sword all the time, what's motivating that? What's driving that? What do you gain from being that person? They're the questions that I would become curious about, especially if it's having an adverse impact on the people around you. Being masqueraders, no, I am the saviour, I am the caller-outerer person. And for sure, of course we need that. It keeps us honest and it keeps us accountable, and I am all about that.

Nick Perry: (15:54)

But we both have been in the presence of people who are, like I said, over zealous in that, and that last piece you mentioned, then it's like, "What is this person's purpose?" Who are they? What is the thing behind all of this driving this way of being? That's where it needs to go always. Otherwise, it truly is an unconscious expression, and typically, that unconscious aspect is one that is wounded. One that is distorted might be a better way of putting that.

Nick Perry: (16:36)

And that distortion will perpetuate and amplify and be projected onto people until that question is asked and explored. Not just through the mind, but through the body. Right into the nervous system when we can get into the deeper truths of who we are. And if we do find that distortion, then of course that becomes our work. That's when we need to start calling ourselves out on, oh, here's me being tyrannical in my friendships. Here's me being the perpetrator posing as the saviour.

Nick Perry: (17:14)

But actually I'm just trying to hold power over my friends. Why? Because I'm feeling super insecure underneath it all. Where did I learn to be this way? Ah, yeah, then. And here I am in my adult life, it's still playing out. That's super important to address, but it's like, once I have this awareness, what do I redirect it to? How do I take that energy back and invest it in something that's truly affirmative to me and therefore affirmative to people that I'm responsible for and in relationship with?

Nick Perry: (17:48)

And that's the bigger question. So the first port of call when it comes to purpose is knowing yourself. And taking as long as you need and seeking out as much support as you need to get a solid assessment of that. Scan the entire landscape of you and take it in.

Mason: (18:10)

When you start working with someone, how do you approach that? Because obviously it can happen. It does happen through just the random nature of life's events and it's a constant feedback loop so we can know ourselves. But how do you personally give people that arena to as quick as possible, arrive at that place where they're in touch with their purposefulness and knowing themselves so they can have a bit of a compass as they start engaging with all the practises?

Nick Perry: (18:38)

Well, that's the joy of being a coach is it really is unique to each individual. But I just get very curious about a few things. I get curious about what's not going right in your life? That's really important information. And sometimes, when we're in the thick of it, that's not something we want to really take stock of or audit or acknowledge. And it's like, "Well, let's just go there. This is a safe space. What's not working?" Maybe there's distance in your relationship. Maybe you are fucking hating your job.

Nick Perry: (19:20)

Maybe your health sucks. Maybe you have challenges with your sexual function, anything. What's the feedback life is offering you now. That's a place I would start. And another really helpful question to follow that is, what do you want? And most of the time when that question is asked in a deliberate container where it's like, "Okay, we're getting real here." Most of the time, it's, "I don't really know.I don't actually know." So it's like, "Oh, cool, cool, cool. Here's the doorway now, let's step through that."

Nick Perry: (20:00)

So if you don't know who you are and what you want, who have you been been? What is this identity that you occupy? Where did it form and what impact is it having for you to continue in this path? What's at risk here if you don't actually make contact with the authentic you. That's where I start, just really curious and it's really nice because there's no shame in that. It is a big and they are big and confronting questions.

Mason: (20:33)

I think these types of conversations happen far too often accidentally when people stumble into the, for lack of a better word, like the health scene. This level of like maturity or going to the core is like what happens after someone's drunk the Kool Aid and gone too far down a dietary or spiritual or philosophical dogma? And then you come out the other side of it and then that's the impetus sometimes to be like, "Oh, I lost myself. Where am I here?"

Mason: (21:07)

But again, I think more and more, hopefully there's a bit more ethic in the people who are welcoming people and to get healthy and to make sure that... I think this is the insurance policy, to make sure people don't lose themselves, especially when delving into the spiritual stuff. And especially, at the moment with everything going on in the world where there's so much division. Not just trying to find your identity through opposing another camp, but going in and finding what you want.

Mason: (21:39)

I'm curious, because I definitely relate to like, if someone goes like, "What do you want?" And I'm like, "I just don't see... I don't know what you're really asking me or what you want me to say right now." But I'm not someone that works in those black and whites. I have a German friend who was talking to you about earlier. Maybe someone like that, he's like, "I tell you exactly what I want. This, this, this, that."

Mason: (22:01)

I can tell you somewhat of a specific of how I want my life to unfold, but part of me doesn't give a shit what my life looks like. So I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you where I want to be as a person, as a man and a businessman and husband and father ongoingly bit by bit. So I'm in a position for life to unfold in a way that I know is congruent with my purposefulness. And so I just want to be in that. That's what I want, and so that's... I'm not going to go too much deeper.

Mason: (22:35)

Here, it'll take me too long to explain to myself what my process is. But how do you then frame up that, what do you want? And then how do you bring colour to the responses and nuance into the way that men are answering that question when you're working with them?

Nick Perry: (22:54)

Awesome. What you just said then is a really important detail, is we're not looking for the blueprint. It's like, what direction do you aim your arrow in? And I feel like that's what you described. You know what direction you aim your arrow, but you've been walking your own path long enough and being in a place of self responsibility long enough to know that as you evolve, so does that vision. And so does what you're about and what you're building, and all of that.

Nick Perry: (23:38)

And that's a very important detail is, we're not looking for the thing and it has to be that forever right now. We're just trying to find what is your north? Where does north point on the compass? So the places that I would start is that question, and this is a really popular one in personal development. And I think it's deservingly so, value systems. So all things are governed by a value system, things that we deem as important and prioritise.

Nick Perry: (24:14)

And a value system is basically like a filtration system. And things pass through that value system and I make my decisions based on those values. So when it comes to someone getting clearer on who they are, again, this is one of those confronting questions. It's like, what if you were to name me the things that you value highest, four of them, just four of them. And do so from as selfish a place as you can. Just you. And a meditation that can help with this is to call in and visualise you in a child and just observe them.

Nick Perry: (24:52)

What do they gravitate to? What do they resonate with? And then you can call in your inner elder and just observe the essence in the energy of the inner elder that's past all the bullshit of that middle stage of life. Childhood to old age. And then it's like, name them. And for some people it's like adventure, some people it's... For me, one of my core values is solitude. That's so important for me to build and design into my life, and I have done.

Nick Perry: (25:32)

Somebody else, it could be like honesty, and they just use that as their means of establishing what is a yes and what is a no in their life. And if somebody can't answer that, these are my prime core values, just four or five, then it's like, okay, no wonder you hate the job that you're in. Starting to make sense. Whose values are you living out right now? What drove you to say yes, to staying in a job that you fucking despise and is literally sucking you of your life force essence?

Nick Perry: (26:11)

And you have inflammatory disorders, you're tired, you're using, alcohol and weed as a crutch and you not really connecting in your relationship. It's like, "Oh, okay. Well, yeah, this is what might dad did. He worked his fingers to the bone and he valued hard work. And so it's like, okay, now we're starting to take stock of who you are and where you aren't living in accordance with your true essence. And it's like, that doesn't mean you need to quit your job straight away, but just have the awareness.

Nick Perry: (26:51)

And now you can start to dream into that question, what do I want? So if you were coming from your own value system, what would change?

Mason: (27:03)

I think, and you just mentioned is that, what was coming into the back of my mind is that bridging phase. I think quite often, we don't go through a comprehensive value building where there's nuance. And when you bring those multiple value and virtue sets that arise, they often harmonise and balance other out. Versus being told, "Hey, if you don't like your job, you probably need to prioritise yourself." "Oh, so it's all about me," And then you just go and rip [inaudible 00:27:37]

Nick Perry: (27:39)

Push like a Looney Tune scene, push the T&T bar down.

Mason: (27:43)

Yeah. And it happens a lot in personal development as well. You see people just eject out of their relationships and all kinds of things and prioritising myself. And they just ride that energy. Sometimes it might be the right call, a lot of the time it's probably... Let's look at like a job's an easy one. Pointing the finger at the job being something you didn't like versus gently real... nourishing the learning that you went in there and committed to that job as a particular type of person and got what you were energetically putting out there.

Mason: (28:18)

And can you just stay there for that little bit while you have a plan for what's going to come next, especially, if you have dependence? Or ensure.

Nick Perry: (28:26)

Yes.

Mason: (28:27)

... that you respectfully, don't just... Now because the secret to life and prioritising yourself, don't make it everyone else's problem. And don't blame them for their unconsciousness and all that. Can you still meet them in that place of where they're at and gracefully and respectfully move on? Same in a relationship, right? That's what I think when you were saying, there's like that four values, however many come up. You see what you could... The holistic family of values and things that you cherish in life, they do harmonise each other.

Mason: (29:01)

And if you go through that comprehensive work to begin with, that lays solid foundation to ensure what you are doing is in resonance with what you're actually trying to create.

Nick Perry: (29:11)

Yes, yes, yes. Right on, it's a bigger picture and it's a longer game now. The long game is the way to go from my personal experience, speaking for myself. I see this often, and this isn't a diss or a judgement it's an observation in the coaching circles where it's like, "Okay, I'm ready to change the world." I'm a coach now, so I'm going to step out of the matrix. I'm going to two feet jump out of the matrix and I'm going to have a thriving coaching business. And it's like having built a coaching business, it's taken me nearly a decade to get where I'm at and I'm still very much a work in progress. I'm like, "That's not going to work."

Mason: (30:02)

Do you mean especially the part of stepping out of the matrix?

Nick Perry: (30:06)

Yeah. So I'm quitting my job and it's like, "Okay, well, who's going to pay the mortgage." It might seem obvious, but still it's a common thing that is often endorsed in the mind over matter ideology.

Mason: (30:23)

Faith in the universe.

Nick Perry: (30:25)

Yeah. Faith in the universe. And it's like, "No."

Mason: (30:26)

Which has got some validity.

Nick Perry: (30:28)

It does.

Mason: (30:28)

But it's more like 80-20 rule. Just like the term.

Nick Perry: (30:33)

Exactly. Again, don't be so rigid in that. And my advice to people, and I swear to God, I've had this conversation with many people because they're like, "Oh, how'd you do that? And this and that." And I was like, "Man, for the first few years I was wearing steel cap boots more than I was wearing sneakers." You know what I mean? I was on the tools digging holes and paying rent as a labourer and then doing my coaching on the side. And it was a transition that took, it took time and it was important that it took that time. One, because it helped me be an effective coach because I can relate, I can relate to people who are moving through a transformation process and all the aches and pains of that.

Nick Perry: (31:21)

It gave me time to acquire experience right before I'm just gung-hoing because it's a big responsibility to be a coach. And the more exposure to complex problems and having mentoring first in how to resolve people's complex, support people to resolve their complex problems is super fucking important. Otherwise it's negligence, straight up. Don't take somebody to a part of themselves, one, that you haven't been to in your own way, and two, and you don't know how to get them back out of there. If you're taking someone down, there needs to be a level of experience and a skill developed where you can actually feel, where's the point in our return and how close are we to that right now? And is it appropriate that we go there today? And this just takes time and it's a beautiful experience and yeah, I feel like I'm rambling.

Mason: (32:23)

No, I mean it's-

Nick Perry: (32:25)

I don't know if that answers that.

Mason: (32:25)

... probably the most common thing. I don't have any specific questions, just jamming but bit what brings up a lot. I used to, and I've still got one client, one coaching client and was nearly considering do I go down the route where I'm running Super fist or do I go down the route where I continue my mentoring, coaching programmes, running retreats. And obviously ended up going down, running Super feast, which is not what I wanted, but it was probably it was what I personally, what I needed. Exactly for the reasons you're saying I would say I'm an ethical coach and I don't take people into cathartic process, but none nonetheless, I still probably wasn't willing to be a facilitator at that. I wanted to be more general in my approach.

Nick Perry: (33:24)

Cool, cool. Yeah.

Mason: (33:26)

In that, you talked about stepping out of the matrix. Now, the biggest thing I see in the coaching circle, and I'm sure this can be seen when people who when they're stepping out of their jobs, stepping out of and just making a big lane change in life, is you do excessively go right. What I was doing before, where I was super grounded into the earth and the earth's rules and the government rules and taxation and the matrix and all that kind of stuff. I'm rejecting that and it can of like the Darwin's model is like you've got the earth down the bottom, and that's got a couple of organs down there and you've got the human in the middle, and then you've got couple of other more up towards the heaven, organs up the top.

Mason: (34:14)

And that's where all your vision and your purpose and all that is. But down the bottom is where your worry and your grief and your fear, but also your willingness to take on large responsibility. And as in the coaching world, people do just go like, "All right, well, that's it, I'm changing my job and I can straight up to the top and I'm all purpose and all vision." And the thing I can smell it on them now, when I know that they're not grounded and that they don't have their ducks. And are like, "I don't care if it's a... you can see, I only work all in like cryptocurrencies now because money ATO, all of that bad and new world spiritual awakening, blockchain, this is just an example, cryptocurrencies, that's the way of the future.

Mason: (34:58)

And it's a complete bypass, regardless of whether you're running an official business or whatever it is, you are energetically ungrounded and lack the capacity to take on the responsibility to facilitate those big inner journeys, and then bringing people out of those journeys as well. If you don't know how to run your business and be super all over tight, what my cash flow is like, what my balance sheets looks like. All those things that are out, I'm getting out of the matrix and I'm going to be free and be a coach. What they think they are going and pursuing is they're just shirking responsibility. And coaching clients, you're either going to have a low IQ, not to be mean, but a low hanging fruit coaching client, who's not experienced enough to recognise that you are pretending to have your shit together, or you're delusional about having your shit together, or you're going to have good coaching clients and they're going to test you, like what a child does.

Mason: (36:02)

Children are really smart to test your boundaries and see where there cracks, where you haven't got your shit together and where you emotionally haven't got yourself together. And good coaching clients will be like that. And you can say all you want like, "Oh, they didn't get it, and they just wouldn't listen, and they weren't teachable." It's like, no, their pointing out that you don't have your shit together. You are not grounded. Therefore you don't have the capacity to take on this big responsibility. I think it's really important what you're saying there. It's not all about this can be applied everywhere. It's not just coaching.

Nick Perry: (36:35)

Yeah. Well, I'm so glad you brought in the Daoist stuff, I was waiting for that, and I love it. That's why I tune into this podcast because I'm just love that perspective so much and yeah, totally, it's like, if your coach doesn't seem human, then they're pretending, they're not being honest. Anyone that's worked with me would know that I am such a work in progress and it's not that I'm a perfect person. It's more that my relationship with hardship has matured, where it's something to embrace. It's something to love on, it's something to accept and recognise as part of the spectrum of the curriculum that we pass through. So that's my way of deciphering what you're saying. If it's like, "No, this is the way and crypto and I'm holier than thou and following me into the desert, it's like, where are we going though?"

Mason: (37:51)

Yeah. And just all crypto's great. It's not [crosstalk ##].

Nick Perry: (37:55)

Definitely Not, definitely not. That's just our

Mason: (38:01)

The [crosstalk 00:38:01] example at the moment is on.

Nick Perry: (38:04)

It's pretty on trend too.

Mason: (38:06)

But I think, I talk about it so much on this podcast and I don't apologise because it's-

Nick Perry: (38:18)

Everybody who can't see [inaudible 00:38:21] he looked up, looked off into the distance and raised his finger and said, "I don't apologise and I love that."

Mason: (38:30)

It's the non escapism, not losing yourself to a particular identity, not feeling like you've found the holy grail, realising you're a constant work in progress. We talked about this morning to kind of... I like the Buddhist and they're like, "You chop wood, carry water, and you do that for your entire life, doing the basics." And as you're going along, chopping wood, again, you're going to have a moment of enlightenment as you're chopping that wood. And then your challenge then is to go, "Okay, get over it, integrate it, don't be attached to that and then keep on chopping the wood." So in that, what we're ultimately, as we always do talking about having enough ging and kidney essence, and what is that just the capacity to not get exhausted?

Mason: (39:20)

That's just the physical expression of it. The more qi energetic base, which falls into our psychology is, can you maintain a connection to what is a unique set of emerging and malleable values for yourself? Where you take responsibility for mining those values and coming back and designing your life, where you come back to that. And from that a sense of, yeah, I can see what my sense of purposefulness is, rather than relying on anything externally to tell you what those values are, to tell you what that purpose is.

Mason: (39:58)

And there is going to be a dark night of the soul at some point for everyone, especially if you've gone too far away from your centre and are identifying externally, where you might have... It have been that book or this community where it's like, "It is a good way to live." We can't argue, there's virtues there, but they're not yours. And might have been pointing you towards what your own values are. But at some point you're going to fall over if you're outside of that centre. Or you're going to have to become a little bit tweaked psychologically in order to... Your spirit needs to disconnect from your body in order to justify staying.

Mason: (40:38)

That's what you said, it's what I see with a lot with a lot of these health ministers with the cracked out eyes at the moment, and they've lost all capacity to be human. So the spirit, we see it's a deficiency of shen. You see the life goes out of their eyes and they've just got that dead psychotic stare as they're berating the public down the camera. So that's the spirit needs to go away-

Nick Perry: (41:00)

Right on.

Mason: (41:00)

... because it can't justify being in that system anymore. Because we've decided we don't need our own sovereignty, I'm just completely going to become a shield for this institution or this narrative. And so everyone... That's why I like talking to you and I like your approach to coaching people. Because I think coaching's become so diluted. I like reminding myself and everyone that, yeah, it just... But the more dilution there is, the more you're actually also going to define the pure, the goods.

Mason: (41:36)

And we have talked about it lots on this podcast, but your ability to stay within your own centre, it's what we're talking about this sovereignty, mining for those values, it's so important.

Nick Perry: (41:49)

I would argue that it's everything. Bottom line, [inaudible 00:41:54] what's the bottom line to this dream or dreaming? It's that, it's fucking that, because anything else is illusion or distortion. Anything else like you say is, your free will's been hijacked and it is no longer in service to your truth, your soul, your essence, your uniqueness, period. And therefore the offering you are to the universe is being hijacked or diluted somewhat. Who you are needs no justification.

Nick Perry: (42:39)

Doesn't need to fit into anything, any demographic, any label or title ultimately. And for sure, when we are in the world, we can take that on, we try it on. But we need to know that it's something that we can take off like a jacket as well, and try something else on, and this and that, and this and that. And the feedback comes in. I'd like what you said about the spirit disassociating, detaching, and how you can literally see that. You can literally see that as a physical manifestation.

Nick Perry: (43:22)

And it reminded me of that really important concept of the pain teacher. So the further from myself I get, I am going to... A messenger will come. And usually, it's through like health, pain, sickness, disease, or relationships is another place the pain teacher often shows up, relationships falling apart or becoming dysfunctional and unhealthy and toxic, et cetera. But that's so part of this, is my relationship with the pain teacher. When I outsource my responsibility to listen to the messenger, listen to the pain teacher, now I'm fucking in trouble.

Nick Perry: (44:11)

Now I'm walking further and further and further down a path that's not true to me. And like you say, there's a lot of pressure to do that. There's politicians doing the most pure shit, guilting and shaming people to conform to whatever the fuck their agenda is, like who even cares? Is it promoting people to love themselves and to pursue their authenticity? Hell, no. Anything outside of that isn't a healthy pursuit.

Mason: (44:52)

The clarity I'm getting, you're mentioning, it's everything. That's everything. Again, we hear purposefulness thrown around a lot to the extent I roll my eyes when I hear myself say it to an extent. But just as much as it gets diluted, when... I always watch myself when I'm like, "Oh gosh, another health coach. Oh, we're talking about purpose again. Oh, we're talking about this again." As much as something's become like, I keep using the word diluted, I think it's a really good one for myself. I've heard about things too much and I find myself getting eye-rolly.

Mason: (45:26)

I remind myself that because there's... I've got such an awareness and I've heard it so many times, if I just tilt where I'm looking towards, like, "All right. Well, I'm looking externally too much, when I'm talking about purpose and I'm rolling my eyes hearing people talk about that." It's because I'm not looking in the same place. I need to look internally and feel... As much as it gets diluted out there and I roll my eyes, I equally know that I'm going to have the opportunity to actually know what purpose fullness is for me.

Mason: (45:55)

I'm going to have greater, the more eye-rolly I get, the more potential I have to actually get clarity on for what it means for me, right?

Nick Perry: (46:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mason: (46:04)

So I'm rolling my eyes at myself because I'm getting bored of trying to... I actually am trying to find the meaning externally and I'm just like, "[inaudible 00:46:12] these people [crosstalk 00:46:13]." And it's just I'm annoyed that I can't [crosstalk 00:46:15]

Nick Perry: (46:15)

You're like, "I don't like that explanation, that person that isn't me is saying."

Mason: (46:20)

I've heard that one before and I tried it and it didn't work and give a different answer that worked. It's like, yeah.

Nick Perry: (46:26)

You said it wrong.

Mason: (46:28)

Yeah.

Nick Perry: (46:28)

[inaudible 00:46:28]

Mason: (46:32)

And just realising that again for myself, as much as I love the taking the piss out of other people. Ultimately, for me, it's all well and good as long as I can practically find that place where I can shoulder the burden of responsibility of that annoyance. So I'm not putting that on someone else, as long as I genuinely have that skill in my repertoire, I find that I'm fine. And I don't mind being sarcastic and taking the peace out of it all.

Mason: (47:04)

But I think the biggest thing that I'm getting today is the difference between just using tools for personal development, which we've talked a lot about, and there's lots of tools. And we see there's lots of little dogmas in churches that emerge around these tools that have been taken out of ancient eastern philosophy and taken out of psychology. So you can see like motivation and crafting your mindset is a tool within a rich tapestry of ancient psychology and spiritual development.

Mason: (47:39)

But we see, just talking about love, and by the way, this is absolutely not a criticism, my own experience. So like the motivation scene or like the David Goggins' kind of like, "We're going to take this tool of crafting your mindset and making so you push past your beliefs and we're going to use that." And it's like, well, to what effect? Why?

Nick Perry: (48:09)

What's the effect?

Mason: (48:10)

Where is that coming from? And the way we can ensure that that falls into actually using an appropriate amount rather than going, "Oh my God, that was really amazing. I've pushed past my barriers and so more must be better." And then your identity falls into that tool, versus where's the why, that mining for your own purposefulness and values. If you know what your purpose of what you're actually creating in life or the direction you want to go in life, it becomes self informing.

Mason: (48:42)

You use that tool to an extent and then you see where it actually starts pulling you away from your centre. And therefore you naturally find, "Okay, that's the appropriate amount that I really need to be pushing my mind and going beyond what I think is possible. And that's then where I can leave it and it's had it's done its job, and I'm just going to come back to my centre and cruise, and maybe not have to go and do another ultra marathon on broken legs."

Nick Perry: (49:11)

Yeah, on these broken legs that are screaming, "You're not good enough. You're not good enough. You're not good enough. And I just fucking this, the moRE stamina I get, the more I reinforce that. Is that what this is about? Is this trying to fucking... I guess what I'm saying here, man, is I love that, what you just said then. And I think the biggest challenge isn't an ultra marathon, it's to do anything from a place of enoughness. Meditate on that. If I was in my enoughness now in this moment, would anything change?

Nick Perry: (49:53)

Would I choose something differently? Would I communicate something else? Would I go downstairs and go in the gym and do the training session? In my enoughness, what happens?

Mason: (50:12)

Huge question.

Nick Perry: (50:12)

How do I feel? How do I feel about the world from that place? That's an important meditation. Otherwise, it's just people yelling at you. It's just the fucking drill sergeant yelling at you, to use the Goggins archetype, [inaudible 00:50:35], and it's like, "Stop the noise, shut up."

Mason: (50:39)

Roger that.

Nick Perry: (50:40)

Stop running and consider what it would be like to trust yourself.

Mason: (50:50)

The enoughness, that's a huge one. What an exercise? What a process to come back to. Funnily enough, I've been using it a lot lately, because again, I live in my mind so much sometimes that I'm black and about like, "Am I an ambitious person or am I not an ambitious person?" Rather than coming, returning to that place. This is why I promote an uncolonized mind so much, because when you're in a non-colonised mind and you can step back into the natural, there's diversity, with various seasons, various things come up.

Mason: (51:32)

Seasons of your life, different things come up and you're ready for that because you're not attached to going, "I am an ambitious person. You know what? I've just realised, I'm not an ambitious person anymore." Ambition is there in existence, in diversity with everything else. I've been meditating on it with my business and I'm like, "Where am I taking this?" And this is probably going to... What you just said is going to tilt me to go a little bit deeper, going, "Okay, if I'm enough already," and I go, "Wow." And I feel, but I'm enough.

Mason: (52:06)

Then the first thing that came up is permission for my ambition to come up, but appropriately in resonance.

Nick Perry: (52:14)

Yeah.

Mason: (52:15)

You know what I mean? [crosstalk 00:52:15]

Nick Perry: (52:16)

Look at this pump in here. Right. Right. And that's your contribution. That's your contribution. That's what your role modelling now. I don't give a fuck how big your business is. I don't give a fuck if your business ends. I'm more interested in seeing a man live from that place and exude that essence and show the way and give me permission to gift myself the same state of being. So like you say, we can get so identified with the form, with the material. But that's just the vehicle for growth, that's all. And sovereignty is the bottom line. Here I am, and here we are. And fuck it, this is awesome right now."

Mason: (53:07)

Yeah, it's a trip and facilitating that journey for people, I can... When you feel the space that's been created now and what we're weaving into, and looking at what it means to create an environment where we don't just get that pop once, but we create the environment within our life that this can be a constant. Yeah, it makes-

Nick Perry: (53:30)

That's where the tools become relevant. When the context is me, not measuring myself or comparing myself against someone that I have pedestaled or that markets themself as there. At where, some sort of fucking destination, they've made it. No such thing. One of my clients dropped some wisdom once on a call, and he's an avid sailing enthusiast. And what he started to... The metaphor that came to him, because we'd just gone through like an intense 10 weeks of learning tools.

Nick Perry: (54:09)

It's like, "Here., here's some covery. Here's some swords and ninja styles and shit for the battlefield." And is like, "Oh, I kind of get it. When I sail, I'm continually tapping the steering wheel. I'm continually just having to read the environment, obviously, that's always in flux, always. And steering my vessel in the direction that's truest to me." I'm never not tapping it. It's never really smooth sailing. But if I identify as the captain, captain of the ship, I look after the ship, which is my body. And that's what will take us back to the start with the health stuff.

Nick Perry: (55:02)

Then yeah. Then now I'm living. Now I'm living, now I'm present to where does the rudder need to move right now in this movement? Ah, ah, cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. And now we're getting closer to that bliss without it needing to be a sunny day.

Mason: (55:22)

Are there any tools in particular that are really exciting you at the moment?

Nick Perry: (55:25)

I don't know if that made sense, man.

Mason: (55:27)

Yeah, yeah. No, for sure.

Nick Perry: (55:28)

Cool. Cool.

Mason: (55:30)

Just yeah, before we wrap up, I'm curious, just to the ninja styles for... We've taken it deep and given the bed. What are the ninja styles and little tools that are exciting you the most at the moment?

Nick Perry: (55:44)

Well, to someone that's new to this, I really do feel like Don Miguel Ruiz's first book's great. The Four Agreements. I think they're great ninja styles, always do your best, and to know what that means. And that again takes us into congruency and integrity again, doing your best isn't perfectionism. It's something else. Don't take anything or anyone personally. And again, it's like we can take the feedback coming at us, but don't take it personally. So self responsibility matures when we embrace this ninja style.

Nick Perry: (56:24)

Don't make assumptions. I think that's a really powerful... Whenever I do couples coaching, that's usually the big driver of conflict is assumptions. You should know, it's like, "Well, they don't." You need to make it known and vice versa. And be impeccable with your word to me. If somebody said, "What is freedom?" I would say that. How do I be a free person? How do I be a free man in the world? Being impeccable with your word and I really journey with that going to the depth of what that means.

Mason: (57:12)

Love it, man. Good ninja styles. Good ninjaring. Where are your offerings at the moment? Are you taking clients?

Nick Perry: (57:21)

Yes. I've got a few sessions. I'm not sure when this comes out, but I've got sessions left for the end of the year. And I've opened up, it's the third time I've run this, a mentorship. It's a 12-week container That's open to 10 people and it's a very holistic experience where we do you, and we also come together as a group and learn from each other. Again, there's lots more detail information in the infrastructure of that mentorship, what it includes, who is it for? Who does it serve? And I'm really excited for that.

Nick Perry: (58:05)

So the next one is kicking off the 31st of January. It's about half-full, so if you're listening to this and you're interested, get in touch through my website, rhythmhealth.com.au. That's R-H-Y-T-H-M, spelled funny or Instagram, Rhythm Health.

Mason: (58:24)

Nice.

Nick Perry: (58:24)

That's yeah, that's it at the moment.

Mason: (58:26)

You got to like mailing list I can jump on just to [crosstalk 00:58:29]

Nick Perry: (58:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jump on that, jump on that. You can do that through, again, through my website.

Mason: (58:35)

[inaudible 00:58:35]

Nick Perry: (58:37)

You'll yeah. Get a little gift if you do as well.

Mason: (58:40)

Jump on it, guys. Get gifty. Man, thank you. It's been a really fun morning. Been a really fun podcast. It's been very enlightening, and as we know. Drop the enlightenment now and get on with chopping wood, carry water.

Nick Perry: (58:54)

That's it, man. Why not?

Mason: (58:55)

Yeah. What a gift to be able to have these conversations and make this a part of our businesses and work and purposefulness like yeah, what a fun way? What a fun way to exist.

Nick Perry: (59:07)

Agreed, man. It's really is a privilege and an honour and a delight to just hang and let alone be invited onto your podcast and connect with your audience.

Mason: (59:22)

We love it.

Nick Perry: (59:25)

Thank you, man. Thank you.

Mason: (59:26)

Absolute pleasure, man. Likewise, thank you. See you next time, man.

Nick Perry: (59:29)

Yeah.