Kid's Immunity & Liver Flushing with Helen Padarin (EP#125)

Mason: (00:01)

Hey, Helen. Thanks for joining me.

 

Helen Padarin: (00:03)

Hey Mason. Great to be here at long last. Hey, we've made it.

 

Mason: (00:06)

Well, I'm glad you made it. I don't know how many years of hearing your name around the traps, the health community from grassroots days to just around Instagram and seeing your trips that you... I don't know if you are still running the trips out to, was it Arnhem Land?

 

Helen Padarin: (00:24)

In Arnhem Land. Not since COVID that's for sure. So I'm hoping to get up there in July, just personally, but not work-related at this point, but that's been a very rich experience.

 

Mason: (00:39)

What were you doing up there exactly?

 

Helen Padarin: (00:42)

So I was partnering up with an organisation up in Elcho Island, started by Kama Mico, was Kama Trudgen, now Kama Mico. And she started this organisation with a Yolngu woman. So Yolngu are the indigenous people of that part of Northeast Arnhem Land, Elcho Island. And basically looking at supporting them to bring in more of their traditional ways of eating again, which essentially in that part of the world is very much what we would call paleo. And because they've got a really low lifespan there. Forties is generally where a lot of them are passing away, unfortunately, and it's just really due to a lack of education and resources and understanding. And likewise, us [inaudible 00:01:40], us non-indigenous have a hell of a lot to learn from them as well. So it was about learning from each other in this world where we're so disconnected from each other and ourselves and nature and ancient wisdoms and things like that, that really give us a sense of belonging and anchoring and place in the world and actually really simplify a lot of things as well.

 

Helen Padarin: (02:02)

And so, as a result, a lot of us in this Western culture are feeling separated and isolated and stressed and alone, and the sense of not belonging and it's creating all sorts of depression, anxiety, and chronic illness. So we have a lot to learn from each other. So we had set up a world first really bringing indigenous and non-indigenous together for a two week retreat to learn from each other. And it was amazing.

 

Mason: (02:36)

Far out.

 

Helen Padarin: (02:36)

So I would love to do more of that work when the time and space and opportunity allows, but really beautiful work

 

Mason: (02:47)

I love talking about diet and lifestyle. I really love watching, I'm always tuning into your stories, especially because I'm fascinated by practitioners who know how to hold that space really tightly, but there's an invisible bridging from the clinic over into the culture that we've got within our families and within our lifestyle. And you really, you've got a strong flame in your own personal culture. You're cooking out, you're talking a lot about your sourcing and I really like it because it's like it's a real authentic path that you have. And I don't see that a lot in practitioners. I see a lot of practitioners are in a colonised clinical mindset, which is awesome. And we need that. Just not that bridging.

 

Mason: (03:40)

So since you're in that space, creating a diet no longer is about rules and following any crap like one thing. So you, I'm interested. So the way I see diets forming is you hold we're pillars of what we value. And for you, there's this again, for lack of a better word, there's a paleo esque energy around the way that you go and that you're getting a lot of the macro nutrients so on and so forth taking advantage of these whether it's like, I think your pork ribs yesterday?

 

Helen Padarin: (04:12)

Pork belly.

 

Mason: (04:14)

Pork belly. What's that farm again, that you-

 

Helen Padarin: (04:17)

Gregory Downs Organics. So they're a regenerative farm in Young, which is about four and a half hours south west of Sydney. Amazing meat.

 

Mason: (04:26)

I'm going to have to get onto that. I think that deliver. I think they send it-

 

Helen Padarin: (04:29)

They're trying to get further afield. They do make drops in Sydney and Wollongong, and I think as far north as Newcastle, but they're yet to get up to Northern-

 

Mason: (04:40)

[crosstalk 00:04:40] I can't complain, but so it's like there's that element of sourcing local, emulating the basic philosophy of based on the evidence of how we've eaten for thousands of thousands of years, but it's very much as you can as you know it's like okay, cool. We've got animals and a lot of vegetables that aren't endemic. Is that the right word? Anyway, that aren't native to where we are, but it's necessary. We do the best we can. Not many people go and then hold like, all right, now what about all the... I'm just curious what wisdom about, what pearls of wisdom when you go on that retreat, whether it be the food, the foraging, the insights around how you do have a family culture, what is there in that pillar that's marrying up with all these other pillars and values that you have?

 

Helen Padarin: (05:36)

Well, everything in that culture is about relationships first and foremost. And the perspective and vision and way of seeing the world is utterly different. It's like being in another world literally then what we see it. So it can take quite a bit of adjustment to get your head around and how you relate to other people is based on your relationship with them or the relationship with animals or plants or a location or an element. It is literally all about relationships. So there's so much richness and beauty in that. And I see it taking life from being relatively 2D and black and white to being this Technicolour bazaar of richness. There's just so much more nuance in there and detail in there, which is really beautiful. And then it was really interesting from a food front because yes, I use paleo. I don't even really like labelling anything because I certainly don't agree with saying I am paleo because I am not paleo. I am a human. I'm Helen. And there are ways in which I eat that support my physiology best from my own experience. And so when I came across paleo, I was essentially already eating that way by way of experimentation since my teens of what works for me. Because I grew up feeling crap basically. Lots of immune stuff going on, depression, polycystic ovaries, just recurrent infections, pneumonia, shingles, you name it, asthma, eczema been there.

 

Mason: (07:24)

The whole shebang.

 

Helen Padarin: (07:30)

Yes. So I don't know what it was that drew me on this journey really. I know there were a few turning points, but for whatever reason, there was something innate in me that made me look for things that made me feel less crap. I wasn't even really looking to feel well because I didn't actually know that I didn't feel well because that was my normal. So I was just trying to avoid the things that obviously made me feel worse. And as years went on and that was refined. And then I started studying nutrition and naturopathy and it kept further being refined. And then I started seeing patients. And then for a lot of the first decade of my practise, I was really focusing a lot on working with children on the autism spectrum. And they like me, typically have a lot of digestive issues.

 

Helen Padarin: (08:23)

And so going on this journey to heal my own digestion and working towards healing theirs, and it was like this amalgamation of nourishing traditions and gut and psychology syndrome and the body ecology diet and bringing all these things together. And when you overlay those elements, a lot of essentially what it came down to was paleo without knowing it. And then when I found out about paleo, I was like, "Huh, that's like what I'm doing." So it wasn't like a thing to latch on. And I encourage this for everybody is working towards what works best for you. And we go through different seasons in our life. And at different times we might need to eat in different ways to support ourselves through that phase as well.

 

Helen Padarin: (09:10)

But what I found really interesting. So even when I'm eating paleo, my perception or my approach was always really highly plant-based. So it was still like 80% of my plate was veggies. And then there hasn't been meat and plenty of good fats, love fats. And then I started hearing about carnivore diet and [crosstalk 00:09:38] this ties into what I'm about to talk about up north. So I am getting somewhere with this.

 

Mason: (09:43)

I completely trust you. I sometimes don't. I try, I'll admit, trust my guests and I'm like, "I'm going to remember that we've got a stake in the ground over there," but for you, I'm like, "I know you know what you're doing."

 

Helen Padarin: (09:56)

Awesome. So when I first heard about carnivore, gosh, it must've been, I don't know, five, six years ago, something like that. And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me, right? That's a bit of a stretch." It was so far from my perception and my understanding at that point in time that I really couldn't reconcile with it at first. But then the more I started reading about it and the more I started researching and the more I was looking at a bit of the anthropological side of things and our history with hunting and gathering and the more I was looking at research and the more I'm working with restoring gut microbiomes and all this stuff. And I started meeting some people who were on that path and it was a massive turning point in them really upleveling or really nurturing and nourishing their health to a point that they hadn't yet been able to achieve prior.

 

Helen Padarin: (10:58)

So I was starting to think, "Okay there's something in this." And then I started working with a few patients myself and experimenting just myself, but only in short little stints that actually felt really good on it. And patients who were bringing it in as well were typically really benefiting from it as well. And I typically maybe there might be rare cases, but I don't necessarily think it's a forever thing, but it's certainly a very helpful tool at times. But then what I learned when I was going up north was going hunting and gathering. It's really bloody hard to find plant foods, really hard. It takes out a lot of energy and a lot of effort for very small yield and that yield doesn't cover the expenditure of energy that it took to get it either.

 

Helen Padarin: (11:57)

There's some amazing phytonutrients in there that have other really valuable physiological effects. But in terms of energy balance, it didn't add up at all. And yet to go and get a turtle or a goanna or whatever was actually relatively easy. And then you had something really filling and nourishing to share with the community. So that really started to shift as well my understanding. Because I've known over the years it's really important to prepare plants properly because they don't have teeth or claws. So their defence mechanisms are compounds within them that put animals off eating them because it might make them sick or die. And so we need to prepare those foods properly.

 

Mason: (12:47)

Can I just say, just watch your hand. I think it just hits every now and then that mic.

 

Helen Padarin: (12:51)

The microphone.

 

Mason: (12:52)

I think it was just your hand brushing over it, but yeah. Sorry, go for it.

 

Helen Padarin: (12:58)

No worries. So where was I? We really need to be able to prepare those plant foods properly so that we can digest them and utilise the nutrients in them adequately, which in our society of busy-ness, convenience, get things done quickly, that just doesn't tend to happen. So to have a healthy plant-based diet really takes a lot of conscientious effort. So time up there really helped me to consolidate that and really helped with my broadening my perspective. And again, it depends on what climate you're in, what season of life you're in, what your demands are at the time. All of those things come into play as well, but there really is time and place for all sorts of different ways of eating, including being vegan.

 

Mason: (13:54)

I love this conversation so much. And I feel, if you're happy because I like what you're talking about there, it's just, it's bursted a bubble of perception that you had. And then from the way that you're talking about it, I'm going to keep to myself really questioned based I'm really just curious. And I'm in a real gooey thinking about this. You talked about seasonality being a factor. And for me more and more, as soon as you brought that up, it took me straight out of the black and white way of things. I still, if people say carnivore and straightaway in my mind, I'm like, "If you start it, there's going to be an intention to do that as long as possible, see how long that's going to be beneficial for you." And it's a real 2D way of approaching diet, which is fine, especially if you're in a clinic and especially if you're using veganism or carnivore as a healing tool. And you're very aware of other variables that may be doing gut microbiome testing, whatever it is.

 

Mason: (14:59)

As soon as you mentioned seasonality, you've put colour and more of a 5D 6D way of thinking about how diets are going to slot in. And I started just thinking of gorging. It's of course like the same three square, although there's say and sorry for rambling here and sorry for rambling everybody because you tuned in for Helen, everyone. [crosstalk 00:15:25] I'm going to ramble a little bit, but we'll make sure we go long so we get all the wisdom out of Helen as well, but I'm going to indulge and process. I love contradictions. And again, I keep on thinking about this Scott Fitzgerald quote of the sign of true intelligence is your capacity to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and still function and hold them and watch them play pong back and forth.

 

Mason: (15:52)

And so the three square meals. I'm like if you look at Chinese culture and the longevity factor of having consistency, same food, same nice warming food prepared in very similar ways, changing slightly during the seasons in cooking method. But having that real consistency for the body, I'm like, "That makes sense." And then you look at the ancestral element and it's like, well, for an Eskimo, you're going to, at some point in winter, you're going to be gorging on meat. And then I got brought to my attention. I'm like, yeah, but in the springtime, they actually have access to a shitload of berries and plant matter and they're going to be going hard over in that way. And they needed to because that's the way the world presented itself. And so there was this fluidity and this dance, which we need to learn how to integrate that.

 

Mason: (16:43)

Even though we do have the convenience of civilization that could give us say the people who are best at taking advantage of civilization from a health and in other ways perspective is say the Chinese. And so they do that really well. So I'm like, cool, take that, but then don't forget your roots. So on and so forth that creates this gooey potential. If you can, for me, you say burst that bubble of like, "I know what it is. I know where I attribute my health to." It's this diet, because you've got to discover, I guess at the moment it must be trippy for you having a clinic and taking people through healing diets and then attempting to convey the ongoing, never-ending nature of finding an optimal diet in this crazy privilege that we have in this world.

 

Helen Padarin: (17:31)

We definitely are in an incredible place of privilege that we do have so much choice and I think it's because we do have so much convenience and comfort. And convenience and comfort can really be thorns in the side of progress as well. So we really need to, I mean, I personally get really sick of going to, even if it's the organic supermarket and it's the same vegetables all year round. There's five things you can choose from like, "Oh my God, give me something else." I need to go foraging to have some variety or something. So we would be... Simple I think is good because we can very much over-complicate things. And the seasonality thing is an environmental thing and also an internal thing because internally we've got seasons too. So we are going through our lives, different stages of growth, different hormonal stages, stages of disease, stages of recovery and recuperation.

 

Helen Padarin: (18:38)

We've got the four seasons of the year that we are... You know a lot about this. You can speak more on that, but throughout both our lives and our environments, there's always these shifts. And I think that's where we run into trouble when we attach ourselves to any ideology, because then there's that risk of sticking to it, no matter what, even if it isn't actually serving you anymore. So I think always having some flexibility and yet being able to dance with the seasons and know that things aren't stagnant. It's like when things get stagnant, that's when we get ill. So we need that flow happening throughout all elements of our life and food is one of them.

 

Mason: (19:27)

And you brought up the different seasons of your life and that really strikes me. I haven't heard it come up in a while, just in a distinction around this, but brings the... And I can feel in that it's like you're going to evolve and have different seasons and you've only got the... That maybe doesn't necessarily loop around like the seasons of the earth, perhaps [crosstalk 00:19:56] and that's the only time you're going to have that hormone ratio or deployment, or that con symphony of those secretions. I'm just interested, have you got any in your own life? On that, just how that helps you like...

 

Helen Padarin: (20:14)

Affected me the most is always staying curious. It's also affected me in that I'm a terrible meal planner. I won't plan a meal because I don't know how I'm going to feel on any given day. So on the day I want to go, "What do I need today? Okay. I'm going to have..." And I'm very fortunate that I've got that choice. There's a lot of people around the world who wouldn't. So that is definitely coming from a place of privilege, but I guess in different seasons for me, let me have a little think and feel. Well, I've actually just got some adrenal results back and I know I really need to go into some adrenal restoration for myself at the moment because there's been quite a few years of really depleting them basically.

 

Helen Padarin: (21:03)

And I guess because I have all the pieces in place in my diet and lifestyle otherwise, I'm able to carry on pretty well. So I was quite surprised when I saw those are low. So I was like, "Okay, that's a little bit of a reality check for me as well." Stress is a big one for me. And I know that I've got this global high activation of my nervous system running in the background. So there can be, particularly during times of overwhelm for me, then I really need to make sure that I am, I don't know. There are times where I might have a bit more carbohydrate than normal and other times, for example, carbs just really don't suit me and make me feel tired. But other times it's something that's actually going to nourish me and nurture me and give me more energy and make me sleep better. And all of those kinds of things. So there's little tweaks like that in my diets.

 

Helen Padarin: (22:05)

And then lifestyle wise, I'll be making sure that there's time to actually switch off and have quiet time. And over the years I've said one of my biggest goals in life is to get bored because I think there's not enough opportunity for that these days. And that's the place where creativity and imagination really comes to play. So that for me has been one of my big life lessons, because it's a little trap when you love what you do as well, because it doesn't necessarily feel like work, but you still got to really have that quiet time and rest, or I should say, I really still need to have that quiet time and rest. So they're the seasonal things for me that I'm feeling most at the moment anyway.

 

Mason: (22:57)

Boredom. I really, I use that word in a very... I have used it. That's when I was like, when I was-

 

Mason: (23:02)

I use that word in a very.... I have used it, like... I was like, when I stopped being vegan, it was because I got bored shitless with myself. And it's a very different kind of way of approaching that, like slipping into those states of boredom. I feel it's like an almost kind of, I can feel when you're saying that the context, there's a harmony and a sereneness in the cruising, which I think is yeah, definitely... If you look at the way, old Taoists, look at the heart, and being like, you know, full yang's all active, yang, celebration, love, but the yin is serene. And so you look at... This is someone, we just don't associate with that in the west, like that person's full power, fire, heart element, and they're just cruising.

 

Helen Padarin: (23:44)

Yeah. And we definitely... Yeah. We really celebrate that yang in this culture. Right? And yeah, there's, I don't know who first said it, but you know, he who fails to go within goes without. We really need that time to nourish. And for me, boredom is just like an open space of nothingness, which is really, really beautiful. And more, I find, more and more challenging. Or not more and more challenging, I have just found it challenging, to spend time in that space. And I think I really feel that for kids these days as well, especially because they're growing up with so much stimulation and, you know, even we had as kids growing up. And I think that's a whole nother challenge that they're going to have to work their way through throughout life. Yeah.

 

Mason: (24:42)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I'd love to talk about kids a little bit. I'm like, I was so stoked when I saw you were doing a kid's immunity course. I feel because there's a lot with... There's obviously so much on adults' immunity because adults are so screwed. And kids have got...

 

Helen Padarin: (25:05)

And that's the point, you know? Like often adults are so screwed because of what happened when we were kids. And so it's like, let's just stop that train now. Yeah? And turn it around so that when they're adults, I don't have to deal with all this hardship that we're dealing with because we didn't have that information or those tools or those resources when we were young. So yeah, it really breaks my heart to see kids in the clinic. And I know, because as I said before, I can relate to it, when I was young I didn't know that I didn't feel well until I felt better. And then it was like, holy shit, I can't believe I felt that bad for so long. You know? And so when I see kids now who are, you know, maybe not even five years old and already chronically ill, or even teenagers who have just had chronic ill health throughout their life.

 

Helen Padarin: (25:55)

And a lot of it is gut and immune mediated. And they don't even know that they don't feel well. And I can see that, but they don't know that. And someone telling them isn't going to change that for them. Really, it's one of those things, I think most of the time, you don't really know until you experience it. And when you're feeling like that, gosh, it really... You know? It can tend to put a lens over how you see life and what your prospects are in the world and your hopefulness or hopelessness and all of this kind of thing. And so one of the things that I really wanted to be able to do with the kids immunity course is like, get kids thriving, you know? And it empowers whole families because when kids are ill, it puts stress on everybody as well. It puts a stress on other siblings who might not be getting the same amount of attention, it puts stress on parents.

 

Helen Padarin: (26:58)

You know, if you look at, in the ASD community, for example, around, you know, there's about a 80% divorce rate because it's just so stressful when you're with kids with high needs all the time. But there's also, on the lesser end of the spectrum, asthma, allergies, eczema, but it disrupts sleep. And there's all these doctor's visits and there's this constant application of creams and antibiotics and steroids and all these kinds of stuff that, you know, you don't realise how much of an impact it's having on you sometimes until you're not having to do that anymore. And sometimes the idea of changing, like humans in general aren't great at change. And we'll tend to see it like Mount Everest and then we'll do it. And we're like, oh, that was actually an anthill, that wasn't so bad.

 

Helen Padarin: (27:51)

So it's just a matter, I don't know. It's a matter of providing inspiration. Tools and inspiration. I'm really not a fan of motivation. Motivation takes a lot of energy. It takes discipline, but it takes a lot of energy. And sometimes you need that to make a first step. To go, okay, I'm going to do this. However, the way that I like to go on that adventure, to see what else there is. Yeah. So, and to bring some joy to it because of health and healing as well, it can get really weighted too. And you're always focusing on, you know, what's wrong or what else you've got to fix, or, you know, how can you do it better or how can you be better and all that kind of stuff. It's like, actually, let's just get curious and go on a bit of an adventure here and then feel bloody great as a result.

 

Mason: (28:53)

I mean, I'm really excited about it for, you know, myself. Because I, you know, although I feel like we've got kind of like a real good foundation for understanding, you know, what the little ones need, obviously, you know, I've been in the industry and use your eyes like really, really healthy, but I feel like there's a lot of nuance perhaps that I have... Like I could probably upgrade with. So I'm really, I'm looking forward to it for myself for that reason.

 

Mason: (29:17)

I'm pretty excited for the community based on what you just, like, everything you were just alluding to. That it's not just going to be like, stop doing this, you know, it's really harmful to do that and you should feel bad about that. You know, like I just remember the last time I heard someone really tuning into kids health and immunity, years ago, and they were like, basically, you know, giving gluten to a child is essentially, I'm sorry to say it and I'm trying to be gentle, but it's basically child abuse. And I was like, that's such a... You may think that, but that's such a... Like, you're perfectly within your rights, so hardcore to say that to someone, and you've alluded to all the realities of having a family and the fact making it, you know, for me, it's like, creating inspiration, a kinetic connection, an emotional connection to why we're going to do this. If the dad or the mom isn't onboard, you know, perhaps some space to allow everyone to find their own way to engage with this.

 

Mason: (30:12)

So it's not them, and your awareness of the stress that this process can put through. I like, I can feel you really being like a... I mean, a shepherd implies that you've got sheep, but like, you know, a real custodian of like, that can really walk with people along that path and, you know, knowing that it's going to be really unique. I'm really excited for everyone on that. Would you mind jumping into some of the principles, the little tidbits around kids' immunity. Simple, complex that, you know, may be obvious, you know, may be not. And in that, like I was going to bring up maybe like fever as well, because I saw you doing a live on fever the other day. So maybe, I wouldn't mind just like a tiny little download on how you relate to fevers in childhood.

 

Helen Padarin: (31:07)

Yeah. Well maybe we can start there. Yeah. Fever's really important, first of all. Right? So it is an essential part of an immune response. And if we are experiencing a fever, it's showing that our immune system is acting appropriately in the face of an infection or in the face of having to get rid of something in the body from an immune perspective. Okay? And so these days, one of the problems that I find we run into most frequently is where in a culture that is really adverse to discomfort, and fever's not comfortable. Yeah? And so whether it is a headache or whether it is a fever, we're very quick to pop a pill for that and to suppress that. But what we're then doing, if we're suppressing fever, is not actually allowing the immune system to carry out the functions that it needs to.

 

Helen Padarin: (32:04)

And so then as a result, often the illness is either prolonged or it can even be more severe or recurrent. Yeah? Because the infection was never really properly addressed. And a lot of this just comes down to, you know, poor availability of information as well. We all are doing the best that we know what to do with the information that we have at the time. And generally speaking, the advice from most doctors and paediatricians is, if you've got a fever, have some paracetamol or something like that. Yeah? [inaudible 00:32:39] So it's not a... Yeah, it isn't about pointing fingers, going, you know, that's a bad thing to do, don't do it. And there are times and places for those things as well. But to be used really judiciously.

 

Helen Padarin: (32:54)

And so there's a few fascinating things about fever too. And one of the ones that I find really interesting, and Rudolph Steiner talks about this quite a bit too, is how fever is actually really an important part of child development as well, neural development. And you will often notice that if a child has a fever and they're allowed to go through it, they're supported through it, then when they come out of it, it's like, whoa, when did you suddenly grow up? You know, have you noticed that yourself at all? Yeah.

 

Mason: (33:28)

Hundred percent.

 

Helen Padarin: (33:29)

Yeah, yeah. There's this big shift, but that doesn't tend to happen if we suppress the fever. Yeah? Why exactly that happens, I don't know the mechanism. But it is just something that you see happen all the time. Time after time. So that's really important. And there's also a resilience piece in there as well because when a child is supported to go through a fever, they know that they're capable of doing so. And they're also learning that it's okay to be uncomfortable, and discomfort passes too. So that's going to help them as they age because there's always going to be things in life that are painful and uncomfortable. We can't avoid it. And unfortunately we try to, but often in doing so create more. So it's that whole thing in a way of what we resist persists.

 

Helen Padarin: (34:27)

And it's really empowering when you know that you can support your child. Because there's a lot of fear around fever too, yeah, it's like there's fear of febrile convulsions, for example. But the research shows, and clinical practise shows, that generally speaking, febrile convulsions aren't dangerous. There's a point to which, you know, fevers might need to be treated. And it's generally around the 40, 41 degree mark. Or if the child has symptoms like going really floppy or listless or something like that. But generally speaking, even for quite high fevers, there are a lot of safe practises that you can employ to support your child through it.

 

Helen Padarin: (35:10)

And so in the course, we talk about what they are and we also do demos in the kitchen of home remedies and things that you can make to bring into play as well. And you know, what herbs can be useful for helping to moderate or break a fever and things like that if need be. So, yeah, I think fever is something... You know, it's important to monitor and manage, but I think generally speaking we tend to be way more fearful of it than what we need to be. And it's a really valuable process to go through.

 

Helen Padarin: (35:47)

And we've had families in the course going through it. And since starting their course, their kids had an infection and like just the feedback we get after their child has an infection is so cool because you can hear it in their voice and feel it in their tone. They're just like so stoked and feeling so empowered that they actually knew what to do, and were capable of doing it at home. It wasn't this having to outsource all the time. And that I'm really passionate about as well, because I think we have in this society been kind of conditioned to hand over so much of our own power and responsibility. And if we can learn, actually, we've got this, we can do this. We'd be in a lot better place in so many ways.

 

Mason: (36:38)

I love it so much. I love that, like, you've just articulated in a way that is incredible and perceivable. And I don't think people realise the impact. It's like when people don't know that they're not feeling that great, people don't realise just how disenfranchised they are, how disconnected they are from their own sovereignty and something as simple. And I'm excited because, you know, at times I float off into, you know, my very busy periods in the business and, you know, like... And I just, I kind of forget about just tending to the home fire and upkeeping those skills, and trusting in myself and believing myself. Lucky to have a wife that's like very, very good at that. But it's like preparing your own meals and then just having those remedies and watching... Knowing the protocols, you know, and not going to a clinician, oh my god, that's why you need to be teaching this mindset to practitioners, I think.

 

Mason: (37:41)

It just makes me smile so much. And I just, I love practitioners that have that awareness because I think it takes a lot to embody that world of healing, clinical healing, facilitating people who would be out of their depth, which happens regularly. And thank god, you know, we have clinicians for when we are out of our depth. Entering that world, it's such a shedding of the skin and taking on a whole nother path to then venture out of that safe cocoon of I'm a know-it-all, and I'm the one that delivers the healing. To delivering what you are. I really value it. I don't have a word coined for what that type of practitioner is, but I'm going to say a good one. And so..

 

Helen Padarin: (38:32)

[inaudible 00:38:32].

 

Mason: (38:33)

But I love it, yeah.

 

Helen Padarin: (38:36)

No, I get it. It's a big theme in my practise as well. I guess it is more about, you know, the whole teaching a man to fish thing, rather than giving out the fish. Because there's no point, otherwise we're just building other co-dependent relationships rather than being able to really trust and rely on ourselves. And yeah, again, one of my biggest passions, come back to yourself, free a connection with self, trusting that intuition, trusting your inner voice, knowing how much wisdom you do have, knowing how capable you are, and knowing how much resilience you have. Because so many things throughout our life can just like chip all that stuff away from our belief in ourselves that we have these totally warped views of what we are actually capable of. So yeah. Getting back to centre, getting back to self.

 

Mason: (39:30)

So good. What are some of the other principles that you cover for kids' immunity?

 

Helen Padarin: (39:36)

Yeah. So we start off with nutrition and immune function, which is actually really important when we're dealing with kids, because nutritionally speaking, kids aren't just mini adults, right? They're going through the most rapid rates of growth and development in their lives. So their requirements for nutrients are very different per kilo, for example, than it is for adults. Yeah? So we look at the key nutrients that are required for immune development and for gut function in particular, because as you know, most of the immune system is in the lining of the gut wall. And so while we start off with talking about nutrition, because of course every cell and hormone and neurotransmitter and immune molecule in your body is made up of the nutrients that you eat. So if you don't have those nutrients coming in, you don't have the building blocks to be able to build those things.

 

Helen Padarin: (40:31)

And therefore your function is going to be impaired. So, we start off there with the building blocks. There's also the fact that during times of greater need, we need to make sure we have more of those nutrients. So if there are asthma or chronic allergies, or if there is an acute infection, the requirements for those nutrients also increases from baseline. So in those times, what do we want to focus on? Making sure there's plenty coming into the diet. Yeah? And we focus mostly on foods, but of course at times, you know, supplements can be helpful, but in the big scheme of things, we want foods to be medicine as much as possible. Yeah? You can't supplement away a shitty diet. You can't get all those building blocks because food is so much more than nutrients as well. Yeah. It's information and we can't get that information from supplements. So from there we go on and look at gut health and a little bit of a, not a big, deep dive, but a bit of a dive into the microbiome. Because as I just mentioned before, most of your immune system is in the lining of your gut wall and how your immune system responds to different triggers is very much dependent on what kind of microbes are growing in your gut. So we look at the integrity of the gut wall. We look at microbiome diversity. We look at what the gut needs to actually function well, what nutrients are required for gut health as well. So looking at that side of things. We have a whole module on fever. There's seven modules in the course. So yeah, there's a whole module on fever. And we've got an interview with Dr. Marsha Trait, who's a paediatric neurologist in the States and she's shared some beautiful information on fever and microbial diversity and all of that kind of thing in there. So that's got a lot of gold in it.

 

Mason: (42:38)

Amazing. I think all of our people are going to be really stoked to know that you're, you know... I knew you would be, but just know that you're having like that micro, that diversity conversation. I think it's like everyone's starting to click on to that being such a good way to...

 

Helen Padarin: (42:54)

[inaudible 00:42:54].

 

Mason: (42:54)

Yeah. Awesome.

 

Helen Padarin: (42:54)

For sure. Yeah. Then we have sessions in the kitchen. So each module's got PDFs and videos. And so yeah, you come into the kitchen with us as well and we do recipe demos of some really core foods to include for immune function. We have another module on home remedies as well. So again, come into the kitchen with us so that you know how to make them. They're super simple, but you know, like me, I'm a visual and kinesthetic person. So it's easier to learn that way.

 

Helen Padarin: (43:29)

We do include in there overarching support for the whole family as well. Because just like the gut microbiome, the family unit is a bit of a microbiome itself as well. And so the impact of each member of the family affects the other. So we're looking at that kind of organism as a whole. And what else we've got. I feel like I'm missing one. We've got a whole bunch of additional resources in there too. And we include PDFs to research papers and stuff like that. So if you want to geek out more, you can go down that line. And then if you want to keep it really practical and just go, I need to know what to do now, then you can look at it from that point as well.

 

Mason: (44:18)

Can you give me a sneak peak of some type of like nutrients, whether it be one that we like, you know, if you want to be finding it in food or supplementation, that you see as like a key one that's deficient in most diets, maybe don't, leave the hook thing and in the course we'll show you how to get it into your diets.

 

Helen Padarin: (44:34)

I'm okay to share some. So yeah, I guess two of the big ones in Australia, well, not just Australia actually, Australia, America, Europe, and New Zealand, vitamin D and zinc, for sure. And one thing that's really important, I think, for people to understand as well is how limited reference ranges of blood test results are. Or rather how they are determined. Because a lot of people go, yeah, I had my vitamin D tested or I had my zinc tested or my whatever tested and it's all good. It's all fine, it's all in the normal range. But what's important to understand is that reference ranges through pathology labs are based on 95% of the results that go through that lab.

 

Helen Padarin: (45:29)

So that means that generally speaking, it's sick people who are going to get tested. So it's 95% of the results of sick people, generally, not 95% of the results of healthy people. And so it can vary from lab to lab as well, depending on the demographic of the area that the lab is in. And I, as of this year, have been in practise now for 20 years.

 

Mason: (45:54)

Whoa.

 

Helen Padarin: (45:54)

I know, it doesn't seem possible, but apparently it is. And so I have seen over the years as our populations metabolic health.

 

Helen Padarin: (46:03)

I’ve seen over the years, as our population's metabolic health has gone downhill, our reference ranges have changed along with that. So now where we're seeing, oh, it's in the normal range, 10 years ago, that would not have been in the normal range. So normal range doesn't actually really mean anything, okay? We want to actually look at the ideal range.

 

Mason: (46:21)

What a way to decimate the genome and take us on a completely different dependent evolutionary path.

 

Helen Padarin: (46:29)

A hundred percent. There's a Krishnamurti quote I love, now I need to remember it.

 

Mason: (46:38)

I love it and that's all.

 

Helen Padarin: (46:40)

And that's it so look him up. Here it is, basically, he's saying there's nothing healthy about being well adapted to a profoundly sick society, which is what we have been really doing quite well.

 

Mason: (46:59)

Very well.

 

Helen Padarin: (47:00)

So if we look at vitamin D, for example, in Australia and New Zealand, to be determined to be vitamin D deficient, you would have a rating of 49 nanomoles per litre or lower. But we know that even at 75 nanomoles per litre, you have a 50% increased risk of viral infections. That's at 75, but most people could have their blood test results come back at 51 and the doctor's like, "You're fine." And they're like, "Oh my God," going through the floor. So typically for vitamin D, we want to see... And it also increases risk of things like autoimmunity and allergies and eczema and gut issues as well because of course our nutrients are used for multiple functions throughout the body. So low or suboptimal levels. So there's deficiency and there's sub-optimal level and the sub-optimal level will have many impacts around the body.

 

Helen Padarin: (48:06)

So really you're looking for levels of more than a hundred at least, but ideally between 130 and 200 nanomoles, the numbers are different in the States because they have different measurements so you have to do the conversion, but yet in Australia and New Zealand, that's what you're aiming for. So that is really not often achieved because while we're in this sunny country, we've also learned over the years to slip, slop, slap a bit too much and be too fearful of the sun. And so it's very rare for me to see good blood test results for vitamin D.

 

Helen Padarin: (48:42)

And if we don't get our blood levels up by the end of summer, it's really hard to maintain them throughout the rest of the year, because particularly the further down the latitude or further up the latitude you go, the less months of the year, you're actually going to get rays from the sun that you get vitamin D from. So then you really need to make sure that you're getting it from your food. So, yes, vitamin D from food is really important.

 

Helen Padarin: (49:10)

And so zinc, our soils in Australia and New Zealand and quite a few other countries are very low in zinc so it comes down to you're not just what you eat, but you're what you are, what you eat. So whether you are eating plants, you need to make sure that they've been in good soil. If you're eating animals, you need to make sure they're in good soil and eating good plants, and that's going to affect the nutrient density of the food, which is why I'm passionate about sourcing food as best as possible as he can, which isn't always possible, you just do the best with what you can and that's it. There's nothing else, no more to it, that's the best you can do. So yeah, there are a couple of the nutrients that are most commonly deficient. Yeah, and has a huge impact.

 

Mason: (49:59)

Huge impact, yeah. Maybe it's good thing that I have a four year old always asked for a chunk of butter for herself to how down on in the morning,

 

Helen Padarin: (50:10)

Yeah, that's it. So pasture-raised animal fats, so really the best source of vitamin D, which is one reason why I love my Gregory Downs Organics pork and their pork belly. So those fatty cuts of pork because pork fat is one of the highest sources of vitamin D. Or you could even get some pasture-raised lard and cook with that, pasteurised egg yolks, liver, cod liver oil, they are all good sources of vitamin D.

 

Mason: (50:37)

Cod liver oil, an easy one to get into the kids.

 

Helen Padarin: (50:40)

Most of the time, it actually is, it's only us adults that have psychological issues with them.

 

Mason: (50:47)

Yeah. I'm damaged, I'm damaged from taking it. But we dosed Aiya up when she was a little one before she was tarnished.

 

Helen Padarin: (51:03)

And that's one thing, if you are introducing foods to kids, it's monkey see monkey do, right? So if you are wanting them to have a particular food and you're giving it to them going, "Ah, that was gross," then they're going to go, "Ah, that's gross," because they're mirroring you because that's how they're learning. So this just goes across the board. Again, embrace that attitude of curiosity and adventure when you're trying new foods, whether it's yourself or your kids, and remember to give your kids the gift of finding out for themselves rather than basing their opinion of yours, yeah. So yeah, give them the opportunity to choose for themselves. And remember that humans are creatures of repetition, especially kids, and usually the magic number for trying new foods is 10 before you make an actual opinion about something. So just having things on offer that you can try a variety of different things.

 

Mason: (52:12)

That's a good one. Yeah. Gosh, I'm looking forward to doing this course and I'm looking forward to everyone... I think we've got a lot of parents listening to this podcast, I think they're going to be stoked as well. Do you have any particular times when you open it up?

 

Helen Padarin: (52:27)

Well, it's open all year, but now that we're going into the Southern hemisphere winter, we're doing more live chats and spending more time. There's a private Facebook group so you get to connect with other like-minded families as well, which is really great. And so yeah, times of year like this, we're spending more time in there to engage and make sure everybody's really resourced up as we go into the cooler months of the year. So yes, now is a good time.

 

Mason: (52:57)

Oh, that's such a huge resource having a practitioner led course that's revolving around remedies and keeping yourself healthy is very different a lot of the time to where I've kind of come from, which is that super counter-culture grassroots health community, which it's like there's an experimental remedy for everything and a lot of the time they were impervious to structure. Some of them nail it and do it really well, most of the time not. So it's nice to know, especially when it comes to kids, they just have such a grounded resource, grounded admins helping.

 

Helen Padarin: (53:37)

Yeah. And with the Q&As as well, the live chats, it's such a good opportunity to engage personally as well and ask specific questions about what's going on for your child or your family or yourself. Yeah, so there's the foundational work with all the course material and a lot of specifics in there for different kinds of conditions or symptoms, but then, yeah, the live chats are a great way to go deeper, basically.

 

Mason: (54:12)

Amazing. I mean, what an investment. I mean, when it all gets a bit hard for me and I'm like, "I'm too busy," I kind of really start re-evaluating, especially... I mean, if I look at I'm investing in a house and working my ass off and I can feel how that kind of setup is going to be so beneficial. It's just as easily I feel the microbiome of my child, I'm like, "No," all of a sudden I'm not too busy. I just feel like getting that world into my world and I go, "Oh my gosh, what an investment," just how much easier life is going to be for that child, for me.

 

Helen Padarin: (54:50)

Yeah, for the rest of their life and your life as well, because we know that the health in our childhood and how many courses of antibiotics we've had and that kind of thing has lifelong impact as well. So again, that's why I'm so passionate about it and why I wanted to focus on kids because it's a real opportunity to change the future. Or rather than change, have it empowered, strong, resilient future generations. And I can't think of a better gift to our kids in that sense than that really, because then they've got more freedom to do and choose what they wish to.

 

Mason: (55:33)

It's huge. You do just see some people are just naturally born with a shitload of Jing, like Keith Richards, but there's other there's kids, there's families and they were just on the broths and organ meats, just real good source veggies. And you just look at that like the good stock, really good stock, strong knees.

 

Helen Padarin: (55:59)

Absolutely. And I see that with my friend's kids. And so often they just get stopped all the time, going, "Wow, your kid's just so alert and so engaged and so vibrant," and yeah, it does make a huge difference how they start out, yeah, on all levels, physically, mentally, and emotionally, spiritually. Yeah.

 

Mason: (56:22)

What an incredible opportunity to learn these things and to share them out as you said going up, getting on country and sharing that with mob. You can see something really amazing getting created here. It's not just run of the mill. All right. Everyone just jump onto that course, by the way, if you're in the Northern hemisphere get on, get onto it.

 

Helen Padarin: (56:46)

Yeah. Even if you get onto it now you're prepared for your winter, but yes, you can sign up any time, but again, we're on there now.

 

Mason: (56:56)

Prepare for flu season, although we don't have the flu anymore, it's gone. It's all gone. There's no flu season this year.

 

Helen Padarin: (57:03)

Prepare for viruses, can't even say it. Actually, if anybody wants to help this cause for stronger future generations, just with all the censorship going on at the moment, anything that even smells of immunity just is really hard to get much reach. So if you do feel that this is important, then yeah, we would be super appreciative of just sharing it with friends and family and anyone you think might be interested out there.

 

Mason: (57:38)

Yeah. So I'm really happy to share this out there. We've had that as well with all the COVID censorship, even just wanting to do an ad, right? You look at the crazy ads that people put out there from the pharmaceutical company and the crazy... We've talked about vaccines once on this podcast, especially the COVID-19 podcasts so it was with a doctor who, she's rad and she's worked on vaccines and she was explaining her process about all of why she wanted to do it. And I was like, "Great," it was a great conversation. And I really am seeing the opportunity to have some real open table chats on this podcast. And it's the same way with diets, start popping the bubble as much as possible and start looking at each other and feeling each other's process to approaching this whole thing and acknowledging our own ignorance at the same time.

 

Mason: (58:34)

So in saying that, maybe we talk about it, maybe we don't, let's see how far we go down, but just talking to the immunity thing, look at how that's been advertised, celebrity endorsements, all that kind of stuff. There's no kind of real accountability there. I've got a product that's now a TGA listed medicine so it's on the same kind of level of scrutiny as a drug basically and we've got clinical-backed data, we're allowed to say, "This is to build your immune system, this is to support your immune system." And if I try and advertise that it gets denied by the big wigs, because I'm not allowed to advertise my thing that I paid a lot of money to have as a listed medicine here in Australia and is clinically-backed and acknowledged it is traditionally backed to support the immune system. So it's a lot of bullshit.

 

Helen Padarin: (59:32)

Yeah. I feel It. Yeah, that's a whole other thing, isn't it? It's crazy, yeah, how much is being censored at the moment. And I kind of wanted to emphasise as well one thing that you said earlier and then kind of it came up then is that ability to hold contradictions. I mean, all of life is a contradiction, right? Contradiction is everywhere, nothing makes sense really, if you want a black and white yes or no kind of thing. And I just think it is really important that we do kind of let down our guards and defences a bit so that we can get curious and have conversations and not need to pretend that we know it all and be open to learning new information and hearing other people's points of views without becoming supercharged about it. I mean, I know it can be challenging at times, but rarely is the truth at either end of the spectrum, it's usually there's somewhere in between I think. But either way being open to more than one point of view I think is important for health as well.

 

Mason: (01:00:45)

That contradiction you just brought up a real nuanced skill that does show intelligence there because I feel like it's a very slippery one and I do see a lot of people who are speaking out about having the vaccine forced on them going, "Hey everyone, please, you need to listen and learn," and I see the distinction and skill there is going, "I've done a lot of research on this. I have a view that is going against the common narrative and I want to share that and I'm going to ask you guys to be open to sharing," that's the skill. To be like that and have real conviction in that what you're talking about and still then holding this opening and this desire to learn and really dead set letting go of your "I'm a know-it-all, I'm right and I've got all my talking points that make it so that even though they're convincing," I've been there and been like, "No one will ever sway me on this. Look at that, I'm too good at gathering..." Whether you're on the pro or anti or whatever you want to call yourself side, having that ability to lay it down as you know it and staying completely open and curious at the same time, huge sign of intelligence.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:01:59)

Imagine if we could all do that, imagine the state of affairs and society and the world if we even just had a little bit more of that going around. I think that's one of the medicines we need, yeah.

 

Mason: (01:02:15)

I'm going to say something very non-woke now, but going through a fever, going through an experience that is not comfortable and being supported, but being allowed the right to be uncomfortable and work your way through that kind of helps you not become such a snowflake is how I'd put it. But I think what you're talking about, having an open affair, having conversation with someone and really trying to go down a rabbit hole with creating tension around, "I'm sharing what I kind of know, and I'm going to let in and acknowledge you know some," provided the person does, and they're not just a bloody, you know what I'm about to say, rambling idiot. It's very uncomfortable to hold that space and be in that space, that vulnerability of having conviction and really desiring to grow and evolve beyond where you are. And I think it all goes down to fevers, we didn't allow these people to have fevers now they're bloody snowflakes and they won't be uncomfortable in that tension space.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:03:28)

That is so true. That's it. And that tension, there's negative or bad, not good enough words for it that I have anyway, but there's bad tension and good tension, right? To simplify things. And I think that is a good kind of tension. That's like creative tension, that's a space that allows new things to grow from because there is this discomfort. And if we're comfortable, we don't tend to grow because it's just too comfortable, right? But if we can be in that space where we've come from a particular perspective or belief but we can be open to others and again, be curious with someone else who can also meet you there and be curious because it's very hard to do that... Still possible actually, but it's nice if you can do it with someone who can meet you there, then that's where innovation comes from and creativity comes from and how to make things better. So, yeah.

 

Mason: (01:04:37)

Oh, amen. A-bloody-men. I'm aware time is getting around us a little bit, before we bring it home. I just want to quickly get your download on liver flushing because it's your other offering. It's been a little bit since I've done my own liver flush, I do like the idea when Southern hemisphere springtime comes around, jumping on and I guess just being a part of a community and then doing it with you guys in that way. But do you want to just quickly give the down-low? There are a lot of people here who might not have actually heard of liver flushing, where it comes from in terms of the old school herbal tradition and folk remedy, what the point is, what the benefits are, why it's a good idea to in the beginning maybe be professionally advised and led?

 

Helen Padarin: (01:05:35)

Absolutely, yeah. So this is a programme we run a couple of times a year and I guess one of my simplified philosophies of life and health is that disease comes down to two things, too much of something and not enough of something. So what we're wanting to do is nourish and cleanse basically to create and maintain our health. And we're in this environment these days where we are inundated with exposures that as a human race, we've never been exposed to before since World War Two, there's just been an explosion of chemicals in our environment, in our food. And so our livers and our thyroid for that matter get very heavily affected. So our thyroid is really sensitive to a lot of environmental toxins and our liver and gallbladder function are heavily affected by our thyroid, I'd love to know the TCM connection here actually.

 

Mason: (01:06:39)

I was literally just thinking, I wish I had like a Jamie, like a Joe Rogan Jamie and I'd be like-

 

Helen Padarin: (01:06:45)

"Look that up for me."

 

Mason: (01:06:47)

Yeah, just bring that up. I'm going to wobble the video a little bit guys. I'm like, I think I've got a book here, I'm not going to go into it. It's not here, but I have a book that basically is that, a TCM practitioner booklet. Yeah.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:07:03)

Yeah. So there's thyroid receptors throughout your body, right? And your gallbladder needs thyroid hormone to be able to empty bile from the gallbladder. And you also need a good functioning liver to... The word's escaping me at the moment. To transfer your T3, sorry, your T4, your inactive thyroid hormone to active thyroid hormone, T3. That conversion mainly happens in the liver. So you need good liver function for your thyroid hormone to work properly. You need that thyroid hormone for your gallbladder to empty properly and for a gazillion and other things as well.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:07:49)

So we do this liver and gallbladder flush to help out the liver, the gallbladder, the gut, the thyroid kind of everything, basically. So the liver is where we produce our bile, it gets stored in the gallbladder and then when we're eating fatty food, you get a squirt of bile out of the gallbladder to emulsify. It's kind of like a detergent and emulsifies the fats so that your lipase and your enzymes that break down fat can break that down and you can get your essential fatty acids and your fat-soluble vitamins. And fats are really important because they're part of the membrane of all the cells in your body, right? So when there's insufficient bile acids, we can get deficiencies in fat-soluble vitamins, like vitamin D. For example, we can get deficiencies in fatty acids. It can affect our cellular membranes, it can affect your skin, your immune function, a whole bunch of different things.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:08:49)

But we also use bile acid, not only for digestion, but as an antimicrobial as well, because when it gets squirted into the small intestine, it's also working to keep the microbial growth there pretty limited. There shouldn't be a lot of microbes.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:09:03)

... Keep the microbial growth there pretty limited. There shouldn't be a lot of microbial growth in the small intestine. If there is a lot, that's when you end up getting things like CBO or CIFO where you've got bacterial or fungal overgrowth and you get all the bloating and the gas and the IBS type symptoms, and you don't respond well to high FODMAP foods and that kind of thing. So yeah, bile acid and stomach acid are really important antimicrobials for the gut. So we see a lot of people with hypothyroidism end up with gallstones as well because of that poor gallbladder emptying. So a lot of people who have low thyroid function unfortunately end up getting their gallbladders whipped out because why do you need a gallbladder? But then your liver's got to multitask basically and essentially kind of produce bile on hand, which it doesn't do so, so effectively.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:09:53)

So then again, in 5, 10, 20 years down the track, if you've had your gallbladder removed, you end up with these fat-soluble vitamins deficiencies and auto-immune diseases and all these other things as a result of those deficiencies. So it's kind of an area that affects so much of our health and our liver function also affects our energy levels, our moods, our clarity of mind, our vision, all sorts of things. So you can get so many different benefits from actually supporting the cleansing of your liver and gallbladder. And you can still do the gallbladder or liver flush if you don't have a gallbladder because you're still going to get the benefits of the protocol and the process for the liver to function better and to get a clear out itself. So yeah, we also put an emphasis on what you would say in the TCM relationship with liver and gallbladder around anger and resentment and frustration.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:10:59)

And a lot of people will notice if they do a detox, those emotions often do come up. And we learn in this programme how to actually celebrate that and express them in a helpful way. It's like, "Yeah, you're angry. Woo hoo. Let that out." And we also, yeah, so we talk about how to really facilitate that. And often, you'll also notice people who go on meditation retreats or things like that, they come back looking like they've got brighter skin and clearer eyes and that kind of thing as well, because again, the clearing of their emotions helps out the liver. So if you feel like you're quite an angry or frustrated or resentful kind of person or you're feeling a lot of those things, then maybe that's another sign that your liver and gallbladder might need a bit of loving. So we look at it from both that physical and metaphysical aspect.

 

Mason: (01:11:58)

And it's so great. And even just touching on the Chinese medical side of it. I mean, the angry and frustration distinction was really good for me for a time because I did have those pent up and then fleshing that out or going, "Why does that anger happen?" As the chi runs through the liver, as that gets disrupted, the spirit of the liver, the Hun, can't go about its aspirations. Which is, [Tawny 01:12:26] puts it really well, the heart fire will sing to the liver. And then from that singing, the liver will dream.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:12:33)

Beautiful.

 

Mason: (01:12:33)

And that's why it's the liver spirit that travels at night and then dreams and visions.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:12:42)

Okay. Oh, I like that.

 

Mason: (01:12:42)

And that could be frustrating if we can't dream, you know?

 

Helen Padarin: (01:12:42)

Absolutely. And from a Western point of view, that's where you get to the point of apathy and depression because you don't have those dreams then because you've withheld that anger. So often behind depression, there's quite a bit of anger. And sometimes part of moving through that depression is actually learning how to safely tap back into that anger. And anger is really, it is energising. You do get life force from it and it's great for it's really important for boundary setting as well. And knowing actually what you are and are not okay with. And that's an important lesson for life.

 

Mason: (01:13:25)

Mm, isn't it just? I mean, and then if you can get angry and for me, when that anger comes about, if I can't go into my mind's eye and look in, because it is the dreaming and just very floaty, but it's very practical planning of the vision of how to roll out. If I can get in my mind's eye and I can look down the barrel of where I'm going and how I'm going to bring these dreams to life even in a visioning sense, my anger becomes so, so appropriate and sustainable and usable. And yeah, and just yet appropriate in the situation. Obviously, if not, flies off the handle.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:14:06)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'd love to learn more about it from that perspective. It's yeah, I really like that picture you've painted. Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:14:16)

Maybe I can jump on Facebook or something and have a little chat.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:14:20)

Oh yeah, yeah, let's do that.

 

Mason: (01:14:20)

It would be fun. And again, I think because this is coming about in spring, if you're in the Northern hemisphere, because we've just launched in America. So all of a sudden, we've got-

 

Helen Padarin: (01:14:31)

Awesome.

 

Mason: (01:14:32)

Yeah, it's been great. We're really happy.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:14:33)

Congratulations.

 

Mason: (01:14:35)

Thank you so much. We've got a lot of American friends now who are kind of like, "Hey, I want the seasonality stuff too." We're working out. We're working that out. But I think-

 

Helen Padarin: (01:14:42)

Yeah, well, we do do it in autumn as well, which would be the Northern hemisphere's spring, so there you go.

 

Mason: (01:14:48)

Oh, that's great. I was going to say autumn, great time to do this flush. It's an incredible time to let go.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:14:54)

They're the two times we do.

 

Mason: (01:14:56)

Oh, well that's... Okay, I'll just shut up then.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:15:00)

No, don't shut up because now everyone knows. It's great.

 

Mason: (01:15:05)

Yeah, that's really awesome. And it's such a fun thing to do. Do you want to just...

 

Helen Padarin: (01:15:11)

Oh, it's so great doing it as a group. It's great doing it as a group and it's important I find, doing it with support. Because particularly in our modern culture, if you're going from a reasonably standard Australian or American diet, just a modern diet, or if you're exposed to a lot of chemicals or if you smoke or if you're having soft drinks, all those kinds of things, if you go-

 

Mason: (01:15:40)

The fun stuff.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:15:40)

Yeah, it depends who you are, but yeah. But if you go from having that to a flush, you're probably not going to have a very pleasant experience, right? It could be extremely nauseating. You could be vomiting, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but there's different types of vomiting as well, right? So yeah, overall, it's not good. We want to prepare your system, right? Because when it comes to cleansing, cleansing also requires nutrients. So before you can cleanse, there needs to be some nourishment. Otherwise you are just going to deplete rather than cleanse. Yeah?

 

Mason: (01:16:20)

Oh, great distinction about you just saying there are nutrients needed for cleansing. That, so simple, so obvious. I hadn't heard it put that way. Completely changes the mindset around just cleansing.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:16:36)

Yeah. And it just for me simplifies, as I've said before, in terms of my whole health philosophy in a sense of too much of something, not enough of something and then replacing and cleansing those things. But to cleanse those things, yes, you do need those ingredients. You do need those nutrients to be able to do that. So we have a month of preparation before we do the cleanse. And during that, we have a bunch of live chats. There are some suggestions, food wise, it's really kind of, it's not a set meal plan or anything like that. It's all guidelines. So it's super easy to follow and to actually implement. And the first nine days of it is this other programme I do called 9V9 based on the Wahls protocol.

 

Mason: (01:17:27)

Oh great, awesome.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:17:27)

Nine cups of veggies a day for nine days. So that's the starting point. And then, because you've done that for nine days, a lot of that, even if you're not continuing with nine cups, it's usually more than what you were having before. So you've got all those phytonutrients in, coming in, flooding your system. And we give recommendations of suggested herbs that you can use as well to support the process and what fibres or vinegars to use as well to support the process. And then for those who are interested, there's an optional practise of enemas or colonics. And we do live chats on those. There's a lot of shit talk that goes on in the programme. Yeah, we post too a lot.

 

Mason: (01:18:16)

With pictures? Friendly sharing?

 

Helen Padarin: (01:18:18)

There's photos as well. It is a beautifully supportive and often hilarious group. So yeah, we love it. We love it. And everyone just, it's so nice to have a safe space, just to be human and talk about all these things and everyone poos. So it's good just to be able to be human. Mm.

 

Mason: (01:18:40)

I had a bad joke about not pooing coming through, but I'm going to leave it because we're running out of time, so.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:18:46)

Damn.

 

Mason: (01:18:48)

I like the prep is... So I'm like, "Shut up and take my money." I'm like, "I can't wait for spring to come around and do this." I mean, I'm now a busy professional. I'm like, although doing lots in the home, I need that support these days. And so I've [crosstalk 01:19:04].

 

Helen Padarin: (01:19:04)

Well, it's kind of like when we're busy, we actually need it more. Because when we are in busy mode, we're more in that sympathetic dominant mode. And when we're in that sympathetic dominant mode of the nervous system, our detox processes aren't working so much because that's not the priority for when we're in a stress state. We need to be in that rest and digest parasympathetic mode for detox pathways to work more. So if we have been going through a period of high demand, it's actually important to make sure that there's some time and space to slow it down a bit and actually support those detox pathways so that you can clear what's accumulated in that time.

 

Mason: (01:19:45)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Amazing. I've gone from being the health extremist and like, "I do everything and I don't need anyone. I have never go and see practitioners or joint. I'm just doing it myself." And I love that. It's been hard to let go of that a little bit.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:19:58)

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I see it.

 

Mason: (01:20:00)

But then it's like...

 

Helen Padarin: (01:20:01)

Little ego deaths that we do all along the way. Hey?

 

Mason: (01:20:04)

Yeah, the little deaths. And different kinds, not the French orgasm kind.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:20:10)

Yeah, we like those.

 

Mason: (01:20:11)

But like those as well, but yeah. I mean, Tahnee and I are both like that. It's been really... And this is this massive sigh of when ah you go and you let the community support you while you're supporting the community in other ways. Oh.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:20:28)

Yeah, we need it. Yeah. Yeah. I go to others to help me because the idea of doing everything myself when holding that space for others, yeah, that's just too much sometimes. It's just like, "Tell me what to do."

 

Mason: (01:20:47)

Yeah. Let me be a floppy just puppet. And you tell me like, "Take the malic acid." I'm stoked about the month prep and I don't know, maybe you do this as well, but I've always found the litre of apple juice every day leading up to the flush to be [crosstalk 01:21:09].

 

Helen Padarin: (01:21:08)

Yeah, I don't do that.

 

Mason: (01:21:08)

Good to hear.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:21:12)

Yeah, because I think A, there's other ways to get malic acids and if I had a litre of apple juice a day, I think I'd want to vomit. I'd just, oh, I couldn't do that. Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:21:24)

I did want to vomit.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:21:25)

[crosstalk 01:21:25] crazy thing. Yeah, kind of.

 

Mason: (01:21:25)

I was like, "No, I can't do this."

 

Helen Padarin: (01:21:28)

And there's too many people these days with candida issues who just would lose it on that. So yeah, we don't do the apple juice.

 

Mason: (01:21:35)

That's nice. If you go to Donna Gates' book, Body Ecology, she says half a green apple a day, half a green apple. Not a litre of juice.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:21:45)

Very different.

 

Mason: (01:21:47)

And that's phase three of the protocol, it's not phase one. Jeez. So, all right. So take us home. Very quick, express mode, snapshot of someone that's never done a flush. What does it generally look like? Basic preparation around, all right, malic acid, what are you taking?

 

Helen Padarin: (01:22:07)

Yeah, so the basic preparation-

 

Mason: (01:22:08)

Yeah. What's coming out of your bum as well? I'd love to know what comes out the bum. Yeah.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:22:12)

Mm, awesome. Yeah, so the basic preparation starts off with 9V9. No other changes other than that, because part of the important thing is to see how much of a difference one change can make with what goes on with your physiology and your mind and emotions for that matter too. The second phase of it, which is two and a half weeks or so, there's liver herbs. We've, excuse me, got a recipe for liver and gallbladder tea, which you can either make up yourself or you can order. There you're using slippery elm. It's really important that you're not constipated in the lead up so we'll typically use slippery elm or you can use psyllium husks or something like that. A nice, good bulking agent. Apple cider vinegar is a good source of malic acid, as is tart cherry juice, which is a lot lower in sugar. So sometimes people would do, and it's a natural source of melatonin, so it can help people sleep better too. So you could have a shot of that in the evening, for example.

 

Mason: (01:23:09)

I like that.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:23:10)

And if you're really sensitive to sugar, you can actually ferment it a little bit so that it's got less sugar in it, but still got the malic acid in the melatonin. And then there's optional extras of using things like laminin and also a liver and gallbladder supplements. And we, for people in different areas of the world, we give a few different options of what would be appropriate to use. So you're not just left to your own devices, hoping that you're getting something that's suitable.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:23:42)

And then the flush itself is an overnighter. So it involves Epsom salts and olive oil and grapefruit juice. And you start off with the Epsom salt solution in the afternoon. And then in the evening you have an emulsion of the juice and the olive oil. And depending on the person, you might start pooping waterfalls from 8:00 PM or you might not start until the morning. Everybody's a little bit different then, but during flush day, I'd do four live chats with you throughout that day. So there's no room for you not knowing what's going on. Yeah? We're answering questions the whole way through.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:24:28)

And then in the morning or once you've flushed out all the faecal matter, if you want, you can obtain a sieve and put that in the toilet and you can then catch what comes out. Now, mostly what you are flushing from your gallbladder is actually sludge rather than stones. That's its technical term in the medical literature, it's sludge. So it's kind of like microscopic sand. It's very small. So you don't actually, a lot of it isn't actually that visible. You can get these green balls that come out. Sometimes they're stones, sometimes they're emulsified fat because basically you put fat and acids together, it makes soap, right? So you're then basically little balls of soap because you've mixed it with your bile acid. And but you can, once they're dry, you give them a rinse off and put them on a paper towel. And if you want to take a photo and share it with the group, but you can squish them after. Sometimes they'll be hard, sometimes they'll be soft, sometimes they'll feel a little bit grainy. But that will just give you an idea of what you're passing through. So it's pretty interesting. Mm.

 

Mason: (01:25:39)

I mean, I love looking at my stones, my little babies. And I look down on them, I go, "Oh."

 

Helen Padarin: (01:25:45)

Oh, welcome to the world.

 

Mason: (01:25:48)

Yeah, you've been gestating in the liver for a while.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:25:52)

A while, yeah, and it's great, yeah.

 

Mason: (01:25:53)

I'm glad you covered that because it's always fun having the chat with the sceptic, that's like, "Oh, you're actually doing nothing. It's just the olive oil going hard and this." I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes." It's that and then...

 

Helen Padarin: (01:26:06)

And... Yes.

 

Mason: (01:26:10)

And yeah, you break them up and you're like, "Ah, that one... This is rock hard. That's not olive oil."

 

Helen Padarin: (01:26:17)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. What I would love one day and we had someone do it this time actually to good effect, I should have checked the details before I got on. I would love it if we could do a cohort of people that go through that do gallbladder ultrasound before and after. That's a dream. So if anyone knows how we can organise that, I'm all ears.

 

Mason: (01:26:44)

And even just palpation, I mean, that's for me, if I've read every now and then. I do this actually in my talks, I haven't done any talks in a while so it's been a long time since I did it. Getting people to really get under that right rib and feel their liver and I go, "It's probably been awhile since some of you touched it so you'll hear the liver going, 'Be gentle with me.'" And a lot of the time, you'll go so deep and you'll go, "Oh, that's starting to really hurt." And it'd be interesting to really kind of see before and after the month.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:27:19)

Yeah, that sort of tenderness. Yeah, the tender point. Yeah, that's a good idea. Mm.

 

Mason: (01:27:23)

I imagine a gallbladder that's quite clogged up is going to be quite tender. Yeah.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:27:31)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:27:32)

Anyway, so many different things to talk about.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:27:33)

Mm. So many, yeah.

 

Mason: (01:27:37)

Yeah. We'll do it all again, because there are many different topics and conversations, but it's been great to get the download, especially on those two offerings. And also just, yeah, grateful for you to just share, just to kind of bring them to life a little bit, just bring out the nature of children's immune systems. And even without going into heaps and heaps of specifics, the world's opened up and I can feel myself able to tend to that a little bit more. Kind of feel a bit more connected to my liver as well, which is quite nice.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:28:09)

Yeah. That's beautiful. It's been an honour to share with you, so thank you.

 

Mason: (01:28:15)

Thank you very much. And I love, yeah, your podcast. I love your... You don't have a podcast, do you?

 

Helen Padarin: (01:28:22)

No.

 

Mason: (01:28:22)

No. I love your Instagram. I definitely recommend everyone go and follow. And yeah, your stories are rad. I'm always tuning into the stories.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:28:33)

Yeah. I appreciate it, thank you.

 

Mason: (01:28:38)

Yeah, any other last thoughts or places you want to send people?

 

Helen Padarin: (01:28:42)

No, I think that's it. If you want to be notified of when a gallbladder flush is running, follow on Instagram. Also, you can go to Helenpadarin.com/newsletter to sign up for the newsletter. I really don't send things out often at all. However, we do send notification out when these things are starting. So if you want to make sure you don't miss out on it, sign up there. Otherwise, yeah, see you on socials. There's some yummy recipes on my website. All of that, so.

 

Mason: (01:29:15)

You heard her guys. Get over to her website, jump on that newsletter and yeah. All in all, yeah, it would be great to kind of stay in touch.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:29:23)

You can put the link up with the course as well. I don't know if you share the links in there.

 

Mason: (01:29:27)

All the show notes, love all the show notes there. And everyone, we've got you covered everybody.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:29:33)

Wait.

 

Mason: (01:29:33)

And yeah, it would be great to just stay in contact around the liver flush. And it would be great to get a bunch of the super [inaudible 01:29:39] community doing it.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:29:40)

Yeah. It'd be so good to have you come in and do a live chat as well. Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:29:44)

Be so much fun. All right. Until then, until next time. Thanks, big love.

 

Helen Padarin: (01:29:50)

Yeah. Thank you. Big love.