Hemp In Australia & Psychedelic Stories with Nicholas Morley (EP#110)

Mason: (00:00)

Nick, thanks for coming in, man.

 

Nick Morley: (00:02)

Hey, Mason. Nice of you to have me on.

 

Mason: (00:04)

Yeah, thank you. Awesome. It's always nice to get a face to face this time, when we've never been so connected but never been so far apart with all this social distancing.

 

Nick Morley: (00:13)

All the social distancing.

 

Mason: (00:17)

Yeah. I mean, yeah. So thanks for coming to the little herb palace here.

 

Nick Morley: (00:21)

No worries.

 

Mason: (00:22)

Man, I mean it's been a while coming. I mean we've been chatting for years and years, I mean especially with Greenlight consulting and helping my mum out, get her stuff for years now. Get her on the good stuff. So you want to just, in your words, what are you up to?

 

Nick Morley: (00:42)

Yeah, so well obviously we did the documentary with Luke, which was called Green Light, which is now available on Stan, if people want to watch it. Which was a story... A tale about two scoundrels finding themselves and helping people in the same vain. That was an interesting project to work on. When they made Green Light, I was basically working on my own and running this solo clinic.

 

Nick Morley: (01:22)

A lot of people over the years have gotten my number from a friend of a friend of a friend. And I was just doing a lot of one-on-one, advising people and helping people to get the right xxx and THC for their conditions. And then after the documentary came out, things got a hell of a lot busier. So I actually ended up bringing on people to help me, and other consultants. And now we've got a clinic which is called Greenlight. It's a medicinal hemp consultancy that sits in the grey area.

 

Mason: (02:01)

Great. I mean you've got a really wonderful reputation around here. Which it's always nice. I've known you for so many years, it's always nice to hear a mate developing a really good reputation. Which I like about Greenlight, because it's one thing to jump on board something. It's another thing to be first of all, back doing it for the love of it before something was trendy, and doing the hard yards of educating. And then the under step is putting genuine care. And so it's been nice to see that all fleshing out.

 

Nick Morley: (02:37)

Visa versa, too, you with your tonics and mushrooms as well. There's been a few other flashes in the pan ones appear, but I think you're the original and you've got the best products around too.

 

Mason: (02:48)

Yeah. I mean there are some, I call, two minute noodles that just jump in, and-

 

Nick Morley: (02:53)

I'm not going to name any names, but I'd love to.

 

Mason: (02:56)

I feel like we're kind of lucky. I talk about this quite a bit. I feel like we're quite lucky in Australia.

 

Nick Morley: (03:00)

[inaudible 00:03:00].

 

Mason: (03:01)

Yeah. Look, there's some biggies going in, and we talk about it all the time. These people with these big budgets, a lot of the time they come in. They just charge the way, and do all this education for us that we don't have to do.

 

Nick Morley: (03:15)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (03:15)

And also a lot of the services are a part of the market that just want something quick and easy. But so many people, that's their entry. And then they find their way to SuperFeast, or sometimes they don't of course. But it's nice having lots of people jumping in. It makes you sharpen your sword.

 

Nick Morley: (03:35)

Absolutely. I find that too. At the moment it seems like every single week there's another xxx company popping up. And there's a lot of snake oil out there, for sure.

 

Mason: (03:47)

For sure. And not the good type, because snake oil's pretty good.

 

Nick Morley: (03:50)

Yeah. The ouroboros.

 

Mason: (03:51)

Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (03:51)

All this code talk.

 

Mason: (03:59)

Yeah. And there is code talk when it comes to this stuff. Some of it is pretty black and white, and some of this is just why you'd be attracted to do this, or use these products in the first place. Like why is there such a hype around them? I think everyone listening understands some basics of just how beneficial this plant is, how generally beneficial hemp is, could potentially be to the human race, and is provenly beneficial. But where are you at with it? Why do you kick on in such an area that isn't just trading the stock market? Why do you do something like this?

 

Mason: (04:40)

STOP CHECK

 

Nick Morley: (04:40)

Okay, good question. So we're huge advocates for whole plant, full spectrum medicine. There are whole plant, full spectrum medicines available on the ARTG register, available by prescription. In fact, I think there's about 230 products now available, by prescription, available to the general public.

 

Mason: (05:06)

In Australia?

 

Nick Morley: (05:06)

In Australia. However, the demand for the product, and the amount of people that are willing, or the amount of doctors that are willing to prescribe them, and the amount of chemists that are open to dispensing them, is nowhere near catching up to the size of the demand. And I suppose I sit in this sort of, or we as a company, sit in a bit of a weird area, because we were probably some of the first people helping people to get xxx in Australia. I've been working with xxx for nearly eight years, and a lot of people hadn't even heard of it three years ago.

 

Nick Morley: (05:51)

So yeah, there's definitely ... Where was I?

 

Mason: (05:59)

We were just talking like, why are you doing this? Why choose this, rather than something cosy?

 

Nick Morley: (06:05)

Well, I sort of did cosy for years. I worked in the fashion industry for 30 years. Not that it was that cosy. But look, I got to the point in my life where I moved up ... I'd been living away in Indonesia, and I'd been working ... I lived in London, New York, Europe, Spain. I sort of lived all over the place, Sydney, Melbourne. But yeah, I was always working in the fashion industry. And when I moved up here, I went through a bit of a life change. And I thought, what am I going to do with myself? I had a pizza restaurant for a minute, and I thought, that's not for me.

 

Mason: (06:41)

Which one?

 

Nick Morley: (06:42)

It was called [Sant-AY 00:06:44] in Byron Bay. I was one of the partners in there for a minute. But yeah, restaurant's aren't my thing. I love to cook, but I don't really want to own a pizza restaurant.

 

Mason: (06:51)

I think a lot of people discover that. They like to cook and host, and then they're like, "Hang on. This doesn't transfer over." I learned that from Kitchen Confidential, I think.

 

Nick Morley: (06:59)

Yeah. No, it's not for me. But yeah, look. I met Luke, and I went through a bit of a personal mental health crisis. I was severely depressed, and ended up working with Luke. And Luke got me onto xxx, and also microdosing psilocybin, and plant medicine, ayahuasca, all that sort of stuff. But I went through this sort of rebirth of thinking, wow, this is something that I'd like to get involved with, which was helping people, and helping people to feel better, because it definitely made a huge difference with me.

 

Mason: (07:37)

What did you do, specifically? What's Luke's last name?

 

Nick Morley: (07:40)

Oh no, we don't mention it. We just call him xxx Luke.

 

Mason: (07:44)

xxx Luke. Okay, sweet. Is that from the movie, Luke?

 

Nick Morley: (07:47)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (07:47)

Yeah, yeah. Cool. That's how we get it. So you got to go to Stan and go to Greenlight, and that's how you get it. And you get the full picture here.

 

Nick Morley: (07:53)

Yeah. It's there. Oh look, he got me on all kinds of supplements: mucuna, I think back when it was mucuna.

 

Mason: (08:00)

Yeah, mucuna. We've got it. I mean, I haven't got it as an individual herb. We got it in the Neural Nectar, but far out. We talked about that a lot, post-addictions.

 

Nick Morley: (08:09)

Amazing.

 

Mason: (08:09)

Or post like a lifestyle where it's just been all goal-oriented, and hitting your targets, and then going more, and accumulating more money. It's just like [inaudible 00:08:15]. And you get mucuna in, and all of a sudden you can get some healing going on, on that level.

 

Nick Morley: (08:20)

It's such a beautiful-looking vine, too.

 

Mason: (08:22)

We've got some growing in our backyard.

 

Nick Morley: (08:24)

Be careful. It takes over.

 

Mason: (08:26)

Far out. It's a Jack and the Beanstalk vine.

 

Nick Morley: (08:27)

Absolutely. With those beautiful purple flowers.

 

Mason: (08:29)

Our saltbush, I just have to say that it just smashed our saltbush and just pulled it over. I was like, "NO!" It was incredible.

 

Nick Morley: (08:39)

I planted three vines, and I think I got three massive sacks of beans out of three vines.

 

Mason: (08:46)

Nice.

 

Nick Morley: (08:47)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (08:48)

I think it's a leguminous vine, like more of a tropical climate class, just in case you haven't heard that one.

 

Nick Morley: (08:55)

Pure happiness on a vine.

 

Mason: (08:57)

It is pure happiness. It's such a great mood regulator. And it's a jing herb as well, that's why it's such a good brain regulator.

 

Nick Morley: (09:04)

Yeah, and amazing when mixed with low doses of psilocybin.

 

Mason: (09:08)

I've always thought about it, because ... I mean, I'll let you go on and talk about that. Because lion's mane gets all the attention, which is ... it kind of should.

 

Nick Morley: (09:17)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (09:17)

But just one ... to be honest, when it comes to herbs like lion's mane, I like having them alone a lot of the time. But when you start going to another level, you start ... You mentioned it was like stacking. You stack like the psilocybin, and then a lot of people do the niacin. We've heard Paul Stamets talk about doing the lion's mane. But from a herbal, it's better to put these herbs and how they're traditionally used, into a full ... into a formula. And so you start, if you want to get a full picture of all the organs being supported that are then going to promote that kind of mental, brain-based healing, mucuna 100% makes sense.

 

Nick Morley: (09:56)

Yeah. Also, and it's just amazing. The amount of people out there that are on antidepressants is terrifying.

 

Mason: (10:04)

Were you just depressed? Were you on meds?

 

Nick Morley: (10:06)

No. Never took them. But I was depressed. I was probably drinking way too much as well, which Luke also advised me against, because he's not a drinker, at all.

 

Mason: (10:14)

It doesn't help. But sometimes it's so much fun.

 

Nick Morley: (10:18)

Yeah. Mezcal.

 

Mason: (10:19)

Oh yeah. Smoky.

 

Nick Morley: (10:21)

Yeah. I'm a big sucker for mezcal.

 

Mason: (10:25)

I met Jules. It's hard going to Jules' [crosstalk 00:10:29].

 

Nick Morley: (10:28)

Good old Jules.

 

Mason: (10:29)

Yeah. Jules. What's it called again in there?

 

Nick Morley: (10:32)

Sunrise [sellers 00:10:33].

 

Mason: (10:32)

Sunrise [crosstalk 00:10:33]. Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (10:33)

Hi Jules. You're a legend.

 

Mason: (10:34)

Hi, mate.

 

Nick Morley: (10:35)

My liver doesn't like you, but I do.

 

Mason: (10:37)

Yeah. Wallet and liver does not like Jules. But everything else loves you.

 

Nick Morley: (10:42)

But Luke's ... Back onto Luke. Luke's an absolute ... We call him the Lab Rat. I don't think he'd ever take anything that he hadn't tried on himself. And that's a big deal, because yeah, he's experimented with a lot of things. But he's an incredible guy, and I think quite an icon in this area. You know, there's a lot of people who know him, a lot of people respect him. He's one of the smartest people I know, and he's definitely been a huge driving force in my life, and in my business and what I do. He's a man of absolute integrity. I can't get into too much without incriminating us. But yeah, let's just say there's no one I know in the industry that has integrity like him. And he's pretty quick to pull people up as well. He doesn't suffer fools.

 

Mason: (11:34)

Yeah. You got to be sharp.

 

Nick Morley: (11:37)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (11:38)

You got to be sharp, when you're in this business.

 

Nick Morley: (11:39)

You do.

 

Mason: (11:40)

So what did you do? How long was it, from you getting depressed to realising you had ... it gets to the point where you're like, "All right, I can curb the drinking." And then what was it? You were doing some medicines, you were doing some journeys. But yet you've fallen here. I'm assuming xxx, THC, or full-spectrum extracts, not just focusing on those two cannabinoids. Is that what got you over the edge, long-term, do you feel? How long was the process?

 

Nick Morley: (12:11)

Yeah, I would say it was probably a six-month process. And yeah, it was a combination of the mucuna, microdosing psilocybin, lion's mane, heaps of xxx, lowered down my drinking, and yeah, the odd medicine ceremony with ayahuasca. Which, I find ayahuasca is also an amazing reset. I mean, I haven't had it for quite some time. But I've probably had about 30 ceremonies through my lifetime, and I find that's an incredible reset. As is 5-MeO-DMT. That's also been an amazing one.

 

Nick Morley: (12:53)

There needs to be a lot more research now, into studies on depression and anxiety and these plant medicines, because they're far more ...

 

Mason: (13:08)

They knock pharmaceuticals absolutely out of the park.

 

Nick Morley: (13:12)

Incredible.

 

Mason: (13:13)

I think you wrote ... And the research is coming through. Australia's still, the psilocybin theory, there's a few people I just ran into, Dr. Mario in town here, and he's going down ... to Melbourne, probably? Maybe he even said Hobart or Tasi, but I'm pretty sure it was Melbourne. He's going down to do this course, where he's going to start studying how to prescribe psilocybin, and do the facilitation. He said it's not available yet. He's a doctor, so he's going on pure, like really with regulation. But even the fact that that's happening here in Australia and not ... Over in America, they are charging ahead with this research. Which means it's not going to be too long. But the bubble's bursting.

 

Nick Morley: (13:54)

Saying that though, when you say it's not going to be too long, it's like, look where they are with medicinal hemp, and look where we are.

 

Mason: (13:59)

That is a long time, actually. It was how many years ago, when every hemp seed still had to say it was for pet use only. That was what I had to do, when I was at the markets. A sticker on all the hemp seed, saying "this is for dogs only". And now, in that, we've got a thing where it's a double-edged sword with our regulatory bodies, where the one benefit, just I tell myself so I'm not completely resentful towards it, is if you look at the FDA and the supplement industry in America, the average of quality is so much lower than Australia it's not funny. You're getting a lot more shit, a lot more fillers and all that kind of stuff.

 

Mason: (14:40)

Here in Australia, the entry level is so much higher. Even if you're not with regulatory bodies, there's a general standard in our supplement industry, where people know you gotta keep it high. And so other than that, they keep a really tough kind of racket going, on keeping the medicines-

 

Nick Morley: (15:01)

This is the TGA you're talking about.

 

Mason: (15:02)

Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about. That's obviously the shit end of the sword, is it's something like hemp seeds. Which, why would hemp seeds ever not be available for human consumption? It was probably only five years ago, that that actually got approved.

 

Nick Morley: (15:17)

Yeah, well the hemp plant's got a pretty ... there's a lot of bad stigma attached to it, you know?

 

Mason: (15:22)

Propaganda, you mean.

 

Nick Morley: (15:23)

Yeah, absolutely. But on that note, which I think may be something we should talk about quickly, is the fact that TGA, which is the Therapeutical Goods Association, for those out there that don't know, made an announcement a couple of months ago that cannaboid oil, which is xxx, is going to be available over the counter. Which, everyone out there thinks, "Wow, that's amazing news. I can go to the chemist, and I can buy xxx." There's just one problem. There's not one product approved on the ARTG register. There's been no product. So nothing will be sold in chemists, unless it's been passed through with a clinical trial.

 

Nick Morley: (16:04)

Now, to get a clinical trial done, and just to do a clinical trial is going to cost millions and millions of dollars, right? Like at least, minimum, $3 million. And the product that they've approved is made from an isolate, because it's got to have zero THC content. Now, anybody that knows anything about medicinal hemp will tell you, that isolated xxx on its own, without any full spectrum medicine mixed with it, is not effective. So how on earth are any of these companies, that are trying to get these products over the line and available over the counter, going to get any tests approved?

 

Mason: (16:49)

Yeah, that's interesting.

 

Nick Morley: (16:51)

It's not going to work.

 

Mason: (16:52)

I mean, this is kind of an area where I'm not clear on, with TGA stuff.

 

Nick Morley: (16:57)

Yeah. So it's CBT with zero THC in it. xxx with zero THC doesn't work, period. It's not good for anything.

 

Mason: (17:07)

Why?

 

Nick Morley: (17:08)

Because it just doesn't work. The plant doesn't let it work.

 

Mason: (17:13)

Because it's an isolation?

 

Nick Morley: (17:13)

It's an isolate.

 

Mason: (17:16)

So it doesn't ... Will people feel something which probably ... You're saying, if they're doing studies and they're proving there's physiological effects, you're saying to your standards and for true healing, it doesn't work.

 

Nick Morley: (17:30)

It doesn't work.

 

Mason: (17:31)

Whereas, they might see some markers shift and change. But you don't think, with an isolate, that they're going to change in the direction you want them to and need them to, long-term.

 

Nick Morley: (17:40)

Only time will tell. And I know through my own personal experience, we've tried isolates. We've taken them, and the lab rats had them. We'll tell you that they just don't work.

 

Mason: (17:50)

When you say, what are you looking for? The effective [inaudible 00:17:53] on disease states, or psychological states?

 

Nick Morley: (17:58)

Yeah. All of the above.

 

Mason: (17:59)

Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (17:59)

All of the above. But one things for sure we do know, is that full spectrum whole plant medicine does work. The amazing thing about the hemp plant is, it's not just the xxx in there. xxx's one of 120-something cannabinoids that exist inside the plant. But it's also the terpenes in there, as well. So when you isolate, and take just the xxx out of the plant, you're losing ... What about the rest of the magic?

 

Mason: (18:28)

I think everyone is going to be able to jump straight onto the relevance of when we talk about beta-glucans and mushrooms, and the focus on the isolation of the beta-glucans in an extract, that's all well and good. But if you take the percentage of a beta-glucan up above what it's natural ratio is within a wild plant, there is literally not enough room, in that powdered extract, for all the unidentified, like you're saying, energetics and substances, and chemicals, and all the good stuff, that is perhaps regulating those more trendy isolates and compounds. They may be lowering ill effects, increasing certain effects. We don't know what they do. But as you're saying, I think everyone would be like, bang. They'd know straightaway what you're talking about, thinking about why we'd go for like a full-spectrum mushroom extract.

 

Nick Morley: (19:17)

Do they use the term "entourage effect" in mushrooms?

 

Mason: (19:20)

No, but I know exactly what you mean. You need your Turtle, and your Johnny, your Bravo, and I can't remember the other one. It's been a long time since I've watched Entourage.

 

Nick Morley: (19:33)

Now I get it.

 

Mason: (19:36)

Now you're with me? E, that was the other one. Yeah. It makes so much sense, and it breeds ... It's like this self-fulfilling prophecy of why people who are dogmatically dedicated to the scientific community don't understand the full force of natural medicine, because the studies that they're looking at are only dealing with isolates. And only if you get very significant effects from an isolate, will they go on and try all these other different types of herbal extractions, hemp extractions. But they won't let it get past that one stage, because they've chosen a bogey. And the reason they've chosen it, is because they're going to be able to standardise and then patent it, and so on and so forth, and control it.

 

Nick Morley: (20:30)

Which is what it's all about.

 

Mason: (20:31)

Which is all about ... In Australia, you can wear in a ... When you compare Australia to America in that sense, it feels ... I mean, not to go too extreme, but it's quite Orwellian. That's the feel. It feels like, when it comes to getting access to plants, it's a real conservative, locked-up, no progressive consciousness coming through the regulatory bodies. It's like a parent that's over-coddling a child, and wraps them up, and won't let them get out there and work it on the monkey bars, you know? And so you get all these flabby humans. That's how I kind of see it.

 

Nick Morley: (21:14)

So true.

 

Mason: (21:15)

Yeah. So I'm with you.

 

Nick Morley: (21:17)

Yeah. Yeah. So true.

 

Mason: (21:22)

Let's start going into ... I think a lot of people here know about the endocannabinoid system. But maybe, do you want to talk about even beyond that? Just like, because I've talked to you off-mic a little bit before about this companion nature with this plant, with the hemp plant in humans. Where are you at with it? Where are you at in your relationship with the plant, and just how you see it working with us internally, long-term?

 

Nick Morley: (21:55)

Well, I believe that we're still discovering ways that it works with us. But one thing's for sure though, is that we're all born with these receptors. I believe that hemp has been part of the human ... well, with mammals for a long, long, long time. I think it's going to be interesting watching, because it's only been like a short amount of time since xxx's been available to people. It's going to be interesting to see how that does have an effect on people's long-term health, because I believe that it was a missing link. I think it's one of the reasons why people aren't as healthy as what they should be.

 

Nick Morley: (22:45)

But I think one of the reasons why, another reason why people aren't as healthy as what they should be, is because we're just completely contaminated the whole time, whether it's from glyphosate in our food and our food system, to poll

 

Nick Morley: (23:21)

ution, to bad water. There's so many other factors. But I definitely believe that humans have a really ... well, mammals in general, because we treat a lot of people with cats and dogs, and horses. I mean, you can give it to so many creatures, and it works on them. Yeah, I believe it is a bit like a bit of a missing link.

 

Nick Morley: (23:23)

My personal relationship with it is, I used to be a huge pot smoker. I smoked hashish for years. I've always, like ever since I was 13 or 14, I've been a pot smoker. Only in the last year have I actually given it away. I've sort of stopped consuming it. You know, I had a big appetite for it. I was a three and four chillum a day guy, at one stage. But now, I have one little vape pen. And if I'm having difficulty sort of slowing myself down at the end of the night, I'll have one puff on that. Or I'll wake up in the middle of the night, I can't get back to sleep, I'll have another puff on it. But yeah, other than taking a daily dose of xxx, I'm not really a big hemp user anymore.

 

Mason: (24:14)

Taking a dose of the full spectrum stuff.

 

Nick Morley: (24:16)

Absolutely. I'm not going to worry about the isolate powder.

 

Mason: (24:22)

Yeah, you've kind of got to say xxx, because that's the branding around it.

 

Nick Morley: (24:25)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (24:25)

That's what everyone understands it as. Like, okay, I know what you're talking about. You're talking about the full thing. But you have kind of like a tailoring situation. Do you tailor, do you alter, like coming from various strains of hemp? Or are you just getting a full spectrum extract from different strains, and then going ... you for that issue, you're going to go this strain in a full spectrum? Or yeah, how are you altering it and tailoring it?

 

Nick Morley: (24:55)

When we're advising people on products-

 

Mason: (24:56)

When you're advising people what to go for.

 

Nick Morley: (24:58)

Yeah. When we're advising people on what to go for.

 

Mason: (25:01)

Over the counter.

 

Nick Morley: (25:02)

Yeah. There is a bunch of different products that are becoming more available now, and we're seeing really good effects with them. They'll be CBN, CBG.

 

Mason: (25:13)

So how do you get the CBN cannabinoid full spectrum extract? Is that because someone goes and extracts that from a particular strain of hemp, and that happens to be-

 

Nick Morley: (25:25)

Yeah, that's a question for Luke. You need to get Luke on.

 

Mason: (25:28)

Yeah, okay.

 

Nick Morley: (25:30)

The Lab Rat can answer that one.

 

Mason: (25:31)

Okay.

 

Nick Morley: (25:32)

But yeah, and also different strains. And we see different strains working for different things. Also, through our experience, the way that the products have been treated after they've been extracted also changes the way that they relate with the human body. For instance, xxxA versus xxx, THCA versus THC. And there's a lot of studying now going into that, whether being raw products, or decarboxylated products.

 

Mason: (26:08)

What's that mean?

 

Nick Morley: (26:09)

Raw meaning it's a pure raw extract, and then decarboxylated is when it's been through a heat process.

 

Mason: (26:19)

Yeah. It's a good word for "heat process", yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (26:20)

Yeah. So decarboxylation changes the way the plant behaves when you take it, or the way it affects you.

 

Mason: (26:27)

Makes sense.

 

Nick Morley: (26:30)

Yeah, absolutely. Also, another thing that I've found through my experience is that the way that the oils are extracted affects the way they work on you as well. For instance, we prefer using oils that have been CO2 extracted, right? But at the same time, I think what we've found is that when it's extracted by CO2, it affects its terpenes.

 

Mason: (26:59)

Affects them in a negative way, or?

 

Nick Morley: (27:02)

Well, yeah. I just don't think you get as many.

 

Mason: (27:04)

Oh, right. Yeah, yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (27:05)

As opposed to taking an oil that's been extracted using butane. Right? Which some say isn't a safe extraction, but I think you can clean up something that's been extracted, using butane. And the taste, and the flavour, and the effect of that xxx is very, very different to anything that's been extracted using CO2. Then you've also got steam distillation. There's many different ways to extract. And it seems like, yeah, the medicines react, or they react differently, to the body.

 

Mason: (27:39)

I'm with you that it's a missing piece. We're living such intensely stressful lives. It's the entire reason that SuperFeast exists. Eventually everyone graduates to listening to these podcasts. But even then, people are looking for ways to alleviate stress, to get that little bit healthier so life is really nice and easy, so then you can kind of mushroom at the top of all that work, and then work on yourself, and enjoying ... cultivate a little bit more happiness. But let's be real. We might be doing some serious, on-purpose living, but we're hustling as we're doing. And we need ... That's why the majority of people take these herbs, because they're alleviating stress.

 

Mason: (28:21)

When we're talking about that, or ensuring that we can sleep, and just returning to our natural cycles, we're trying to live in this shit-fight society, which is wonderful in its shit-fight-iness. But nonetheless, you need to live appropriately. It's the same with the mushrooms. They're here to help balance out the insanity. And I reckon you're right. The canna extracts, I think every single time I see them being used, people with dogs is a huge one. It's just a missing piece with domesticated animals. But with domesticated humans, or humans walking on the edge of domestication and enjoying it as I am, as we all are ... You know? I don't want to have to be out in the wild. I romanticise about the idea, but I can barely tie my shoe.

 

Nick Morley: (29:15)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (29:16)

But I'm with you. I think it's so ... You can't say that life isn't going to be better, if there wouldn't, in an ideal world that there isn't this mass subsidisation and openness of the market, and for everyone to get access and find what life ... just compare what life is like when you bring this substance in for short-term, or long-term, and see what happens to your endocannabinoid system, and also subsidise the ... You can test your levels within your body, and monitor certain ... see that function gets better. Sleep gets better, REM is potentially going to get better when you're using this, versus not.

 

Mason: (29:55)

I reckon, what then everyone needs to get real about, is that you have to take it into your own hands, and get this into your life. It doesn't need to be a permanent thing, it doesn't need ... or sometimes it does. There's different ways, and different strains, and different extraction processes, and different delivery methods that you're going to be able to work with, to see how do you get this in.

 

Mason: (30:16)

I mean, my mum's a huge one. She's ... can't really talk. Severe brain damage. Still there, able to laugh and interact. Atrophied right side of the body. Has trouble sleeping. Just huge. Catheter, all ... Massive. At home, getting cared for at home.

 

Nick Morley: (30:36)

Yeah. Steve's a good man.

 

Mason: (30:38)

Steve's like the best man. They were engaged, and it's nearly nine years now since. And he's still there, running her whole life in an apartment. Same building. He's got his own apartment still running. The whole carer situation.

 

Nick Morley: (30:51)

So good.

 

Mason: (30:51)

She's got carers there now, 24 hours. It's unheard of. She's on NDIS, but not ... No one's running it except for him. It's unheard of for someone that disabled to still being in their home. And she's got this epic community.

 

Mason: (31:04)

You know, we've had to go through heaps of different renditions of trying this strain, through your consultancy. All right, trying this oil. Okay, cool. And then we finally start honing in on something. And then teaching her how to vape again. Trying that, it was a complete failure, and the vape sat there for like nine months. Then one of her carers is just like, "No, screw this. You are not sleeping. You are taking a toke tonight."

 

Mason: (31:32)

And Mum just got wonderfully ... She just went, she finally learnt. Had a bit of a coughing fit, and then found this magical ingredient in her life that really helps her sleep. I'm actually going to get an Oura ring to track all her sleep cycles and REM, and all that kind of stuff, and her deep sleep states, just to measure what happens before and after.

 

Mason: (31:56)

But you do have to take it into your own hands at this point. And it feels like, for you, do you see it as being ... I know how I see it, as being like a tonic herb, and it's the one you include in your diet preventatively, kind of permanently?

 

Nick Morley: (32:07)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting when you're talking about your mum, because your mum is on a product that we call it the Alphabet. It's nicknamed the Alpha Kit. But it's basically ... the alpha pen's, the reason we call it the Alpha is because it's xxx, xxxA, CBG, CBN, THC. There's many letters of the alphabet in there. It's this amazing blend that was concocted by the Lab Rat, which is incredible. And not only is it great for helping people sleep, but it's also a really powerful analgesic. It's also great for depression and anxiety. It's pretty much a one-stop shop. And that product, if that was out there available-

 

Mason: (32:53)

Can you imagine?

 

Nick Morley: (32:54)

Oh!

 

Mason: (32:55)

Well, that's the biggest thing-

 

Nick Morley: (32:56)

Such a game changer for everyone.

 

Mason: (32:58)

Can you imagine my mum ... can you imagine how strong you need to be, to not completely lose yourself to depression, being in her situation?

 

Nick Morley: (33:10)

And she still laughs.

 

Mason: (33:12)

She laughs her head off. I just got back, it's her 60th birthday. Actually, we're in the middle of a sale right now, for her 60th birthday. And she had an absolute ball. And it's been tough. But something like that product especially has been such a game changer for her, and her mood regulation. We do focus on sleep, because it's such a problem for her.

 

Nick Morley: (33:34)

The CBN was really good too, but then we couldn't get it anymore.

 

Mason: (33:37)

Yeah. But the pen ... Ha ha. That was a Freudian slip. The pen, that has been the best advice that we've gotten, to get her on the pen. But then likewise, I think there's still a couple of other little goodies that we try, here and there. But just why not? It's like a tonic herb. You can't go too wrong.

 

Nick Morley: (34:00)

No, you can't. And I think when people can get away from the stigma of putting something in your mouth and inhaling, like it's not smoking, it's ingesting a vapour ... the whole vape delivery method is just incredible. It affects you within minutes, whereas opposed to giving your mum oils at night. Sometimes an oil takes an hour or two hours to work. But the vape is just like fast ingestion, fast working, and you see a result straight away. Then you can gauge, well, have I had enough? No, I need a little bit more. Have a little bit more. Yeah.

 

Mason: (34:44)

And she has a giggle.

 

Nick Morley: (34:45)

Oh, I'm so happy. Yeah. That's great.

 

Mason: (34:46)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm happy ... it's obviously, there's no stopping it. There's no stopping this plant.

 

Nick Morley: (34:53)

No. There's no stopping us, either.

 

Mason: (34:55)

No. No stopping you guys either. What other areas? You mentioned these needing to be studied more. When you look out at the problems that people are generally facing, you've mentioned depression and mental health. You kind of mentioned sleep.

 

Nick Morley: (35:11)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (35:11)

What else are you most excited for hemp getting out there, and these extracts? What areas of treatment, or even on the other side of treatment, longevity, are you most excited about it getting out there?

 

Nick Morley: (35:25)

Okay, so we've been experimenting a lot with topicals, with skin creams. Mainly that drive came from my absolute pure vanity. I'm just obsessed with my skin, and don't want to age, and I've been tinkering away making moisturisers that contain xxx. We've found that they're just amazing. You were meant to laugh there.

 

Mason: (35:50)

I mean, to be honest, I'm like going, "Me too. I thought I was the only one."

 

Nick Morley: (35:56)

I think your skin looks really good.

 

Mason: (35:58)

Oh, man. I'm like really at the point I'm like, there's a few wrinkles and we're ageing gracefully, and I'm blessed with good skin and all that kind of stuff. But I'm also, you know, you know what it's like. You got a young kid. I got a young kid, and I'm running a business. And I'm like, "Man, running a business and having a young family is amazing for your heart, but not for your skin or your ... " You're just like, just watching ... I'm not that young ragamuffin that could run around, and just spend all day naked sunbathing, and just drinking juice and smoothies, and just cultivating jing anymore. I'm using my jing, and so I'm like, I could use a bit of moisturiser and stuff, here or there.

 

Nick Morley: (36:39)

Well, we'll have to make a note. I'll have to send some over to you. But yeah, we've actually developed a really, really hydrating moisturiser. Then we've done a day moisturiser. We've developed a lube.

 

Mason: (36:58)

Oh yeah. It's hard to get good lube.

 

Nick Morley: (37:01)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (37:01)

How does it work with rubbers, as well?

 

Nick Morley: (37:04)

No good. No.

 

Mason: (37:05)

No? Is it coconut? Have you got coconut oil in there?

 

Nick Morley: (37:07)

Yeah, it's an MCT-based-

 

Mason: (37:08)

MCT-based, yeah, yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (37:10)

But we've found that it's incredible for people that lack a bit of stimulation down there, and for girls, especially girls that struggle having orgasms. It can absolutely enhance pleasure, and sensitivity. Yeah, it can help people that don't have ... It also depends on who you're with. But yeah, it can definitely sort of promote orgasms, and-

 

Mason: (37:33)

You're saying it can help a bit. It's not the full thing. It's not everything. But-

 

Nick Morley: (37:39)

But it is amazing. And I've been giving it out to a bunch of girls, test-driving it.

 

Mason: (37:44)

Test-riding it.

 

Nick Morley: (37:45)

Test-riding it. And yeah, that's been amazing. That's coming out soon. Yeah, so we're launching a website called Mother Flower Medicinals.

 

Mason: (37:56)

This week.

 

Nick Morley: (37:57)

Yeah, that's coming out in like, I think, probably a month away, which is where we're going to have our topicals. And they're hemp-based.

 

Mason: (38:07)

Yeah, you have hemp-based skincare.

 

Nick Morley: (38:10)

Hemp-based skincare.

 

Mason: (38:11)

We'll give away a couple of those. We always do giveaways.

 

Nick Morley: (38:17)

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Mason: (38:18)

We'll do a couple of those on Insta.

 

Nick Morley: (38:19)

Yeah, we'd be happy to do that. And also, obviously because we're going to be doing SuperFeast products on there as well.

 

Mason: (38:26)

Sweet.

 

Nick Morley: (38:27)

Yeah. Which is amazing.

 

Mason: (38:31)

Also, do you have that one, like the winter, with the wintergreen and that?

 

Nick Morley: (38:35)

Yeah, so it's a pain balm.

 

Mason: (38:36)

The pain balm?

 

Nick Morley: (38:37)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (38:38)

Our neighbours, like in our cul-de-sac, whenever something serious goes on, they all know to come to our house and start. We have to keep that. It's like gold. I thought you weren't making any more. That's why I wasn't using it all the time. That shit works really good.

 

Nick Morley: (38:53)

Okay. This is the

 

Mason: (39:03)

So in terms of taking down inflammation, easing pain, and that kind of level? Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (39:07)

Yeah, absolutely. If you think about it, right, your skin is your largest organ in your body. When you rub xxx or THC into your skin, it's getting into you. So the first time I developed the pain balm was for a friend of mine that had really chronic arthritis in his hands. And I'm like, you know what? Let's try this. I thought, what's a great transdermal carrier, and an anti-inflammatory? And I thought, emu oil.

 

Mason: (39:36)

You're doing emu oil?

 

Nick Morley: (39:37)

Yes.

 

Mason: (39:37)

Oh, that makes me so happy.

 

Nick Morley: (39:38)

That's the base. Not good for the emus, but I'm not a vegan. So all you vegans out there, don't use it.

 

Mason: (39:45)

It's an indigenous fat source. I know that this is kind of like a hypocrisy in a way, for me doing Chinese herbs and bringing them into Australia. But I'd argue that we don't have a documented herbal traditional like the Taoists, that can be bridged over to Westerners, for the developed consciousness. That's why I don't do that. But what there is, is an indigenous, for lack of a better word, industry and tradition around a fat source that is completely endemic to this land. And therefore, it is ethically at a perfectly ... It's perfectly, well, it's the ideal fat source that we should be going for, if we're living on this land.

 

Nick Morley: (40:28)

Yeah, absolutely. But I think the weird thing is, I think the supply that we get, or the supply we were getting, it was coming from India. Did you know the Indians are actually farming emus?

 

Mason: (40:37)

That makes sense. India, when I came back from my last trip back from China, I was with a woman ... It was this woman, she was from Norway, living in Bundaberg, working in the macadamia industry. And she'd just come back from all the top macadamia representatives around the world, got invited to China. And they were like, "We're about to turn Yunnan Province into the macadamia-producing region of the world."

 

Mason: (41:04)

And these are the parts where ... I don't go into bat for everything for China, of course. I don't. I just know that I can just appreciate my farmers, and the people that hold the tradition. But that crap ... I mean, India and China are looking for industries that are potentially going to boom. And emu oil being sold over to Asian countries is huge. We don't use it here.

 

Nick Morley: (41:28)

No. We don't, and it's really, really expensive.

 

Mason: (41:31)

It's expensive.

 

Nick Morley: (41:32)

But it works. So going back to it. It's an anti-inflammatory, and it's a great transdermal carrier. So for my friend with his arthritis, I combined xxx, emu oil, beeswax to stiffen it up a bit. And I got an amazing source of beeswax. Then I thought, what's the herb that's the liniment for everyone, that heats up the skin and smells good? That was wintergreen. That's basically what that formula is. So if anyone wants to go out there and make their own pain balm, that's what you need. Or you can just contact me, and I can look after you.

 

Mason: (42:09)

Yeah. Good way to do it.

 

Nick Morley: (42:10)

Yeah. So that works a treat, and it's great for arthritis, and aches and pains. But then also I found out by putting in full spectrum RSO, really strong TCH oil into the mix as well, is incredible. If you've got a really severe injury, it's amazing. And it really gets in there. In fact, if you put too much on, you can feel it.

 

Mason: (42:38)

You can feel it.

 

Nick Morley: (42:39)

You start getting a bit of a buzz. Now the other thing, what we've discovered though, is that it's amazing for nerve pain. We get a lot of people reaching out to us that have had shingles, right? I don't know if you know this, but once you've had shingles, a lot of people get this after-effect, which is this incredibly painful nerve damage in their skin, around their neck and the chest line. And it is so painful, that just even a t-shirt touching it, or a shirt touching it, or they can't wear jewellery, because the pain is agonising. We've started making this balm for people with that condition, which doesn't have wintergreen in it.

 

Mason: (43:26)

What do you put in?

 

Nick Morley: (43:27)

xxx, THC, emu oil, and beeswax.

 

Mason: (43:32)

Oh, so you just take the wintergreen out. Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (43:33)

Yeah, take the wintergreen out, and add a bit more THC in there. It works.

 

Mason: (43:38)

Nice.

 

Nick Morley: (43:39)

It completely gets rid of it. Not completely, but it means that people can function.

 

Mason: (43:44)

I'm sure, I talked to you about this. There's varying degrees in which something is effective, based on severity and what people are doing in their lifestyle. But you're saying, it gets to a point where you've done it with that many hundreds or thousands of people you've been working with, on a folk level-

 

Nick Morley: (44:01)

Yeah. I know what works and what doesn't work.

 

Mason: (44:07)

What works. Yeah, you know what works. I think we're going to get some of that for, just going to add that to the apothecary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to come and buy a bunch.

 

Nick Morley: (44:12)

We'll do a trade off.

 

Mason: (44:13)

Yeah. We'll definitely do a trade-off.

 

Nick Morley: (44:15)

I can't sell it to you, but I know someone that can.

 

Mason: (44:19)

Yeah. I know it's a side project that you're involved in. I do know that much. But I mean, the store will be up. I'll just buy it off the store. Does anything else like that come to mind? You're talking about the shingles. And what it is it called? The [zarizoster 00:44:38]? The vari zoster virus, or something to that effect, is the one that sits in the ganglia when you have your shingles, and then it comes out. I can't remember the name of it, but we got a lot of people hitting it with astragalus as well.

 

Nick Morley: (44:50)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (44:51)

Any other little ... Look, because I don't know whether there's any other little complaints that people have, that you've found?

 

Nick Morley: (44:59)

Well, yeah. I haven't actually been on the phones for a couple years. I've stayed away from consulting. In the last month or two, I've actually been back on the phones, and working in the business again. I would say that one of the most common things that comes through, is like massive inflammation of the system. That's like inflammation, inflammation, inflammation. xxx works a treat for that.

 

Mason: (45:31)

How do people, when they're talking with you, know they've got chronic inflammation?

 

Nick Morley: (45:35)

They've been diagnosed with fibromyalgia.

 

Mason: (45:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (45:38)

That's mainly what they're calling it. I call it industrial disease. I believe that fibromyalgia is probably caused from exposure to glyphosate. I mean, I don't know, we've never had this conversation. But I firmly believe that glyphosate is basic ... Which is Roundup for those that don't know ... is pretty-

 

Mason: (45:58)

And it's been rebranded now to something else even, but-

 

Nick Morley: (46:00)

Yeah, it's pretty much in everything you eat.

 

Mason: (46:03)

Yeah. Isn't it Bayer? I think Bayer owns it now, right? Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (46:06)

Yeah. They just lost a court case over someone, over a groundskeeper in California that was using the products to spray weeds, and they proved in a court of law that that caused his cancer, and he died. I think the payout was either $44 million, or $444 million to his family. And that's opened a floodgate now, to all these people that are going after Bayer. Yeah.

 

Mason: (46:32)

Good riddance.

 

Nick Morley: (46:33)

Yeah. Good riddance. But anyway, look, that's one of the chemicals that's used in pretty much all their farming out there. They say that even if you buy organic ... If you've got an organic farm, and that's up the road from a farm where they're using glyphosate, it gets into your food by precipitation in rainfall. It is a water-soluble, toxic chemical.

 

Mason: (46:57)

It's like DDT, in that modern [crosstalk 00:47:00].

 

Nick Morley: (47:00)

Same company. Same development.

 

Mason: (47:01)

Yeah. Well, it's just the same. They're finding it in like, what? Polar bear ... polar ice caps, all that shit.

 

Nick Morley: (47:06)

Everywhere.

 

Mason: (47:07)

Everywhere. It's not that funny, but that's why I stopped going into the ... I actively stay away from being a practitioner, and working on specific issues. I work with practitioners and people that have further insight, which meant for me, I got to stop kind of going into theorising around what's at the source of a particular diagnosis, like fibromyalgia and all those kinds of things. And kind of just to hold my ... work with people that are doing so, and having interesting conversations like this, and chat about it. But I get to kind of sit in my prevention bubble in my life, which some would say it's a safe place to sit. But I don't know, I don't hide away from supporting people with lifestyle, when they're going through gnarly things. But I also just-

 

Nick Morley: (48:05)

You've got a business to run, too.

 

Mason: (48:09)

It's for me. It's how I'm built, more so. I realised it, before I had the business. Before even I had staff, and I had to worry about them, I knew that I was going to go in the direction and hold the torch up there, and then bring in the experts to chat about it. You know?

 

Nick Morley: (48:25)

I feel a lot more comfortable working like that, as well.

 

Mason: (48:27)

Yeah. It's fun.

 

Nick Morley: (48:29)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (48:30)

When you started the psilocybin microdosing, what did you attribute the most to that? It's getting a lot of press these days, but when someone's actually had ... when you've developed a real nice connection, and you're so deep into that, you know?

 

Nick Morley: (48:46)

Yeah. My experience with it, or the way I would describe it to people if they want to know how it feels, or what it's like, is it's basically like a light being turned on. There's definitely a real fine line between having the right amount, and having too much. I tend to feel the in-between stage between a microdose and a full dose is a bit of an awkward feeling, I think. So I think it's really important that you get your dose right.

 

Nick Morley: (49:19)

I find it helps me concentrate. I'm pretty ADHD, and always have been, and I find that microdosing helps me concentrate, definitely. It also helps me with my moods, it helps me balance out my moods. In fact, I think I'm probably a bit happier and a bit funnier when I do it. And I sleep well, at the end of the day. So it's definitely had really amazing benefits for me.

 

Nick Morley: (49:49)

I mean, I actually find it really fucking frustrating, when you're on the phone and people have come to you for a consult, and they're like, "What do I need?" And I'm just sitting there going, you need psilocybin. But you can't say that. There's a big difference between giving someone advice on getting xxx, and then saying to them, "Oh, no, you need to" ... I mean, yeah, look. We can. I do advise people to take psilocybin. But recommending xxx to people is one thing. Recommending this, "Oh, you need to go out and get into magic mushrooms," I mean people don't know what psilocybin is. Well, it's what comes from magic mushrooms.

 

Mason: (50:25)

Yeah. Well the xxx and THC arena has been around long enough that, even though there is some hardcore regulation going on in the background, even the grassroots movement has self-regulated itself, and set standards. And the level of understanding around how to extract, et cetera, has increased, I find. It's a very self-regulated system at this point, with its own standards. Whereas, the psilocybin, as you said, dosing it out, making sure you've got a lot of mushrooms, and you're averaging out from perhaps even different batches, to ensure that you're not going to have one batch that has a shitload, or the other one that has none of the active constituent ... that you're testing it out, and making sure you're saying exactly, "This batch is going to be a microdose at this dose" ... It's still a bit cowboy, you know?

 

Nick Morley: (51:23)

Yeah. I've got a question for you too, then, because I was chatting with a friend of mine who, he's pretty involved in the farming of both medicinal ... He grows both reishi and psilocybin. And his point is that, while farmed, psilocybin is much better for you than getting psilocybin that's been pulled out of a cow paddy, or gold tops that have been pulled out of a cow paddy. The way he explained that to me, and I want to get your thoughts on this, is that mushrooms are bioaccumulators. And most cows are fed hormones and antibiotics, and that would end up in the mushrooms. What do you think?

 

Mason: (52:03)

Yeah. Well, I don't know. Most likely that's true, because the mushrooms are ... They're not just the recyclers. They're like the destroyers of toxic compounds in the environment. But not to say ... It depends on what the half-life of the chemicals are that we're talking about. There's some substances that mushrooms will go through, and completely revitalise, and destroy that compound that's got such a short half-life, within like one spawning. Whereas radiation can be taken ... It can still be taken from something having a 100,000 year half life, to 30 years. Or something like that, in that example. I mean, it's true.

 

Mason: (52:54)

I think when you start getting into that level of thinking, I would probably agree with you in the fact that you have no idea what's going into those cows. When I start thinking about what's in a modern cow, I already can start freaking out. I gotta watch myself, because if I lose myself into the dimension of travelling through, and tracking how many toxins there are all around me, that sends me flying off into an extremist state of-

 

Nick Morley: (53:31)

Yeah. Me too.

 

Mason: (53:33)

... orthorexia, basically, where-

 

Nick Morley: (53:36)

I don't even know what it means. [crosstalk 00:53:37].

 

Mason: (53:37)

It's just like, it's kind of like the health scene eating disorder, where you only eat things that are the purest, but they're only the purest and cleanest based on your ideology. You know what I mean?

 

Nick Morley: (53:48)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (53:49)

And I like-

 

Nick Morley: (53:50)

Let me shop at Santos.

 

Mason: (53:51)

Exactly. But then you got to like ... Yeah, I want to go in and inspect all those farms. So I don't know. Yeah. I already only kind of do only shop at Santos. I mean, I've had to ease up. It got extreme, and not healthy mentally for me. I'm trying to balance-

 

Nick Morley: (54:10)

And financially.

 

Mason: (54:11)

Oh yeah, financially. The amount of money I spent scrounging to just get all my latest supplements, and the amount of juices when I had no income that I was somehow able to go and pay about life in Brazil, growing up, back in the day ... I was barely keeping afloat. And it's good. I mean, it's just for me ... A lot of the microphiles, like people who are really into those deep ends of ... I've pulled myself out of the deep end, and being absolutely ensconced in any area of health other than my own, which I'm trying to come to more one of an integrated one.

 

Mason: (54:49)

So I don't have that job anymore, because I like talking again to people. I'd like to him about it. But I can't. I can get to that space really quickly. Once I get there, I'm gone. And having a business to run, and having a four-year-old, it's not ... I mean, even mini-Mason ... Does that make sense?

 

Nick Morley: (55:09)

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Mason: (55:11)

But yeah, I'd agree with him. I'd probably still take one out of a paddy, to be honest. I don't immediately get the creepy-crawlies. But I would agree with him that the wild ... And in terms of wild, is he farming, in terms of him farming them?

 

Nick Morley: (55:26)

Yeah. Farming in a controlled environment.

 

Mason: (55:28)

Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (55:29)

But I think also what he's managed to do, getting back onto that, is that he's managed to level out the amount of psilocybin that is coming out of these.

 

Mason: (55:37)

Sick. I'm a fan of it, to be honest. Despite the fact everyone thinks I'm massively into psilocybin and take it all the time, because I'm the mushroom guy ...

 

Nick Morley: (55:48)

Yeah. I actually wouldn't have said that about you.

 

Mason: (55:51)

No. I think you can probably see reality versus just perception. But yeah, it's never been my real medicine. Quite a lot of ayahuasca, but it's still been about four years for me. Funny, I was actually just yesterday thinking about how many journeys, and I thought, I was like, it's about 30.

 

Nick Morley: (56:10)

Wow.

 

Mason: (56:10)

When you said 30, it was like, well-

 

Nick Morley: (56:13)

We'll have to go and drink medicine one time, so we'll have to invite you out.

 

Mason: (56:14)

One time. One time. I am not there right now, but one time I can feel the call, it will be there again. But yeah, besides a few beautiful journeys, one up in Kakadu, there hasn't been really any ... Mushrooms haven't played a real significant role in my life. I've got my little dose there, that I can have a microdose, every now and then. But I just don't get the call.

 

Mason: (56:42)

In that sense, you can see my association with it is going to be, therefore, one that is more comfortable with it being regulated by someone, so I can kind of lose myself to the process, because I'm not all over, dosing it out for myself and testing that for strength, et cetera.

 

Nick Morley: (57:01)

I had a really experience ... Sorry, really interesting experience around New Year, actually.

 

Mason: (57:05)

Yeah, go for it.

 

Nick Morley: (57:08)

Yeah. I was down at a friend's in Bellingen, and we got some ayahuasca which a friend of mine had brewed, and we sat at home and drank that on our own. We had two cups, and yeah, it was good. It was pretty strong. And you know, had a really beautiful night. It was a full moon. It was a good time and a good experience, but not one of those crazy ayahuasca experiences that I've had.

 

Mason: (57:35)

You don't want that, when you're on your own.

 

Nick Morley: (57:36)

No. And the next day was New Year's Eve. Then we had some friends over that night, and we ended up drinking, making tacos and drinking mezcal. And this girlfriend of mine brought out these [Sugis 00:57:49], these little meanie-mushrooms-

 

Mason: (57:52)

Oh yeah, the meanies

 

Nick Morley: (57:53)

Yeah, from Victoria. Anyway, so she's capping them up. And look, to be honest with you, I normally have just like one or two, and have a bit of a giggle if I'm drinking ... not having, just as a bit of a fun laugh. I ended up having like six or seven caps of it. And I didn't really realise how much I was actually consuming, until I went to bed.

 

Nick Morley: (58:16)

When I went to bed, it was about 2:00 in the morning. You know that sort of stage, where all your trains land at the station at once?

 

Mason: (58:23)

Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (58:24)

But I think what they did is they called in the ayahuasca crew from the night before as well.

 

Mason: (58:29)

Oh shit.

 

Nick Morley: (58:30)

And I had the most insane, psychedelic experience from these mushrooms. It was one of the strongest trips I've ever had in my life, and it went on for about three hours.

 

Mason: (58:42)

For you, was it experiential, or was it visual?

 

Nick Morley: (58:45)

Oh, it was totally visual. It was crazy. I couldn't really make a whole lot of sense out of it. I think my mind was being challenged constantly. But it was colourful, vivid, and fully psychedelic. Yeah, it was wild. Speaking of, actually I wanted to ask you, have you heard about this other mushroom ... Someone's just given me some, but I haven't tried it yet. Have you heard about Penis Envy?

 

Mason: (59:12)

No.

 

Nick Morley: (59:12)

You haven't heard about that one? So there's a new ... I don't know if it's new. It's new to me. There's a psilocybin mushroom now that's out there now, and they call it Penis Envy. And it looks like a penis. Apparently, the normal dose, like a hero's dose on gold tops would be, what? Two and a half to three grammes? A hero's dose on Penis Envy would be half a gramme.

 

Mason: (59:39)

Oh, yeah. Got to watch out.

 

Nick Morley: (59:40)

Yeah, and apparently half a gramme of it is like smoking DMT for two and a half hours.

 

Mason: (59:45)

Jesus. I mean, that's quite wonderful, that. I mean, again it's been a long time, but I always had really beautiful experiences smoking DMT. It was all somewhat confronting, and quite high doses as well. For some reason that-

 

Nick Morley: (01:00:05)

Terrifies me.

 

Mason: (01:00:06)

See for me, drinking ayahuasca again kind of brings out that, you know? It didn't back when I finished. It was in a really great space, and navigating that space. I'm feeling more of that ... I enjoy it. I enjoy the feeling of terror. But I'm like, for me, I didn't know it was not time. Whereas smoking DMT, I kind of feel like, ah yeah, I could skip into that experience.

 

Nick Morley: (01:00:27)

Wow. Yeah, I find, I had DMT the first time in my life when I was about 31. I was living in New York City, and I was at a party. We were all sort of drinking. I think there might have been a few other things.

 

Mason: (01:00:42)

So okay, disclosure, kiddies. These are all learning beautiful life lessons along the way.

 

Nick Morley: (01:00:48)

Definitely.

 

Mason: (01:00:48)

Track your doses. Don't be silly.

 

Nick Morley: (01:00:52)

But anyway, this friend of mine said to me ... We were at this party, and he said to me, "Do you want to try this new drug?"

 

Mason: (01:00:58)

Oh my god, which one.

 

Nick Morley: (01:00:58)

And I said, "What is it?" And he said, "Well, it's just kind of like LSD, but it only lasts for 10 minutes."

 

Mason: (01:01:03)

Oh, god. [inaudible 01:01:05]?

 

Nick Morley: (01:01:05)

No, no, no. It was DMT.

 

Mason: (01:01:05)

Oh, that was DMT. Oh, right.

 

Nick Morley: (01:01:08)

And I said, "LSD? I've had that. I can handle LSD. 10 minutes? Sure, no problem. Give me a go." So he made a little pipe out of an apple.

 

Mason: (01:01:19)

Classic. Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (01:01:20)

Yeah. And he said to me, "Don't walk around on it. Just go into the room. Lie down, and I'll give you the pipe, and then I'll leave you." Well, fuck me. It absolutely terrified me. The first thing that happened right when it came on, was this massive alien face was staring at me, going, "Go back." I got sent home. And I was like, holy shit. I just wanted to scream, "Help! This fucking alien's eating me!" So I actually found it really terrifying, and I didn't have it again for about 10 years later.

 

Mason: (01:01:53)

But, I mean, you were having a couple of mescals, you were in a party environment. I was in Lane Cove doing other things, I'm sure. I was in Lane Cove National Park, looking out. Like, I was on a big ... on a rock.

 

Nick Morley: (01:02:08)

No one can prepare you for what you see.

 

Mason: (01:02:09)

[crosstalk 01:02:09] no one was around. No one can prepare you, but I feel at least you were thrust into kind of the body, and the mind would have been like, "Okay, cool. We're doing all this. All right, what are we doing now? We're doing this? Okay." And it was just like that combination unlocked the dimension of whichever alien race you peeped into.

 

Nick Morley: (01:02:29)

Oh, it was heavy. But I think the lesson here, if any kids are listening to this podcast, is that don't take anything ever, until you've thoroughly researched it, and you know that it's come from a really good, high-quality and sensible source.

 

Mason: (01:02:44)

Yeah, and if you're busy in life ... For me, the biggest one was, if you're busy in life ... That was a good disclosure. That was good. That was good.

 

Nick Morley: (01:02:51)

Yeah. Well, I've got kids. I've got a 13-year old daughter, and she's probably going to listen to this.

 

Mason: (01:02:55)

I mean, I think that's probably healthy as well, to be honest.

 

Nick Morley: (01:02:59)

Yeah. Honesty's the only way.

 

Mason: (01:03:01)

Yeah. I completely agree. Like just this trying to hide away information, I'm aware of appropriateness of when kids can get access to particular information, but trying to hide who you were or are, to stop ... I mean, that energy is like, no. But what I was going to say there is, there is this kind of pride in the health scene a lot of the time, where going out and DIY-ing, and kind of doing it yourself and facilitating your own journeys ... And I personally think it's quite healthy, for some medicines. But if you're really not sure, and you're just busy, and you don't have time in your life to kind of figure out what a medicine is, how to dose it ... If you're not even around anyone that's taken it before, just, there's beautiful people facilitating now.

 

Nick Morley: (01:03:50)

Absolutely.

 

Mason: (01:03:51)

And the other thing-

 

Nick Morley: (01:04:00)

Or the Fox of Earlwick.

 

Mason: (01:04:00)

Jay, yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (01:04:00)

Isn't that great.

 

Mason: (01:04:00)

But the other thing is like, I'm sure you've got some good insights around ... I mean, for me, quite often I've been a chaser, and so I've chased the answers in the peak experience, in the big cathartic experience. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've gone and integrated, and doing a little bit of meditation. But for me, I don't think I fathomed the level of personal insight and personal practise I needed, to actually integrate what was going on during those journeys.

 

Nick Morley: (01:04:30)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:04:30)

That's where I'm at now.

 

Nick Morley: (01:04:31)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:04:31)

I've got a good Jungian therapist, which I'm lucky and he's fascinated about these, just picking apart ... We're just going like, that's coming in there. This story, and this journey, and this journey, and just be like parts of the subconscious coming out, which-

 

Nick Morley: (01:04:44)

I'd like his number.

 

Mason: (01:04:45)

Yeah, yeah. I'll shoot it. I can't send it to anyone else's, because he's told me he's too busy. He doesn't want-

 

Nick Morley: (01:04:51)

[crosstalk 01:04:51].

 

Mason: (01:04:51)

Well, no, I actually told him, "I'll send more people to you." He's like, "Please don't. Don't mention my name anywhere." But to a mate.

 

Nick Morley: (01:05:03)

[crosstalk 01:05:03].

 

Mason: (01:05:03)

Yeah, well. I mean, pandemic here. Hello? You're a psychologist. I mean, that's another crock of shit, I think the mental health focus. We've got like, "Are you okay? Go and ask a mate. Call the helpline." That's a good initiative. I'm stoked about that, and at least they took the mental health, whatever you call it, you go to a doctor, you go to prove that you're not well, and you're not having good thoughts. Which-

 

Nick Morley: (01:05:24)

Get on the mental health care programme.

 

Mason: (01:05:26)

Yeah. And they're taking that from six to 12. But even then, that's not healthy to take people who can't go ... 12's better than nothing, but it's almost worse to go from six to 12, because you get down 12, you're going to start opening up cans of worms-

 

Nick Morley: (01:05:42)

Absolutely.

 

Mason: (01:05:42)

... that you need resolved with a professional. And at that point, if you do go into ... You know, if you go, "All right, fuck it. I'm just going to do meditation, or go and do some plant medicine." If you're there, and you haven't actually found your footing in that, you can start looping it, and embedding it in further. At that point, I think it's just important everyone's got that personal practise time, whether it's meditation or as, you know, like before you start going into all these medicine journeys, so you can just sustainably bring these things from the subconscious, or from the peak experience, back to Earth, and get some real life tread going on.

 

Nick Morley: (01:06:21)

I completely agree with you. Integration after any of that sort of work is absolutely key. Otherwise, you're wasting your time, and you're going to go back the next time you do it, and you're going to experience exactly the same thing.

 

Mason: (01:06:34)

Yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (01:06:35)

I mean, I can specifically remember being in that state in an ayahuasca ceremony, where the mother had said to me, "You haven't listened." Anyway.

 

Mason: (01:06:50)

You get your ass kicked.

 

Nick Morley: (01:06:50)

Be careful.

 

Mason: (01:06:52)

Yeah, I mean, no that's not get your ass kicked. That's not fair. Tough love. Sometimes tough love. Sometimes all-encompassing love, probably always. All-embracing, all-encompassing love. But on that, I had a thought, and I think that one slipped away so maybe it wasn't that relevant. But yeah, we kind of went in a direction here which was fun. Funnily unexpected.

 

Nick Morley: (01:07:12)

Yeah. It's been good having a chat.

 

Mason: (01:07:15)

With your consultancy, people want to consult with you guys, Greenlight, easy to get and easy to find and get in touch with these days.

 

Nick Morley: (01:07:24)

Yeah. Greenlighthealth.com.au. Instagram, greenlight_aus. Facebook, we're up there as well. [inaudible 01:07:36] page is amazing. I've got this really gorgeous girl called Haley running that, and it's full of really, really valuable information.

 

Mason: (01:07:43)

You want to say hey, so everyone knows your voice?

 

Speaker 3: (01:07:44)

Hey, hey.

 

Mason: (01:07:45)

[crosstalk 01:07:45] super relevant.

 

Nick Morley: (01:07:48)

No, really. It's not just pretty pictures. There's heaps of info up there.

 

Mason: (01:07:52)

Dense, yeah.

 

Nick Morley: (01:07:53)

If anyone's interested in medicinal hemp and wants to learn more, go to our Instagram page, and have a really good scroll through it, because she puts a lot of time and effort into it. It's a real little Bible. Yeah, it's awesome.

 

Mason: (01:08:07)

That's great. I think it won't be out by the time we launch, but Mother Flower, will that be motherflower.com.au, when people can eventually get the skincare products?

 

Nick Morley: (01:08:17)

Yeah. It's motherflowermedicinals.com.

 

Mason: (01:08:21)

Motherflowermedicinals.com.

 

Nick Morley: (01:08:21)

Yeah.

 

Mason: (01:08:22)

Sweet.

 

Nick Morley: (01:08:22)

So that'll be up, and that's where you'll be able to get your lube, and your moisturisers and pain creams. Not the pain cream with THC. And we sell liposomal vitamin Cs, and SuperFeast and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, come and check it out.

 

Mason: (01:08:37)

So good. Anything else you want to pass on to anyone?

 

Nick Morley: (01:08:40)

No, I feel like we're ... I really want to get Luke in to have a chat with you. I think I'll organise that today.

 

Mason: (01:08:42)

Yeah, all right, let's do it. No, I'm keen. I think everyone would be keen, as well. This has been fun.

 

Nick Morley: (01:08:50)

Yeah, mate. Thanks so much. Good to see you.

 

Mason: (01:08:53)

Yeah. You too, bro.

 

Nick Morley: (01:08:54)

All right.