Click The Links Below To Listen Now
 |
 |
|||||||||
 |
 |
Mason and Tahnee Taylor come together today in celebration of our 200th episode for a special conversation on one of our most requested areas of interest; conscious parenting.
The pair prefer the term "conscientious engaged parenting", highlighting how they endeavour to use awareness as a tool in their approach to family culture and raising their two children, Aiya and Leo.
It is lovely to have Mason and Tahnee sharing the mic to shed light on their very human, and very humble take on conscious parenting, highlighting the importance of a grounded approach that champions all parents regardless of their societal disposition or socioeconomic means. Both Mason and Tahnee engage with a style that is rooted in a strong foundation of adaptation, learning and integration.
Tahnee speaks to the difference in hardships faced by children of prior generations who were exposed to famine and war, those who had a responsibility to the family far beyond their years, how many children in the current age are completely removed from these types of stressors, and how that informs their innate resilience and ability to intercept worldly challenges.
Mason shares the importance of operating from a place of non judgement and appreciating how difficult it can be to raise children in a society that is grossly removed from sustainable ways of living, both at the socioeconomic and nature based levels. Emphasising it is more about working to co-evolve with society than to completely override it.
A grounded, inspired and thought provoking chat today, and like most endeavours in life, honour is found in the volition of the intention rather than the perfection of the execution.
Enjoy.
"This isn't about condemning choices people make or even moments in parenting that aren't perfect. I've had many unperfect moments as a parent and will continue to. And the biggest lesson in that for me has just been, I want my daughter and now my son, to be able to own their mistakes and own the things that go wrong and repair after things happen. And so I'm trying to use the things that I don't win at as ways of modelling the kind of behaviour I want to be."
- Tahnee Taylor
Mason & Tahnee discuss:
- What the concept of "conscious parenting" means to them.
- Using boundaries to create closeness and connection as parents and children grow and evolve.
- The modern day coddling of children through societal regulation.
- The power of co-regulation in diffusing challenging parenting situations.
- Parenting through the lens of Taoism; the Spleen and how it's connected to the mother wound.
- Learning from elders and honouring the past while embracing new ways of being and doing.
- Conscious uncoupling.
- The importance of continually making space to tend to the relational union.
Who Are Mason & Tahnee Taylor?
Mason Taylor
Mason Taylor is the CEO/Founder of SuperFeast and a renowned tonic herbalist. On a soul mission to bring people back to their body and nature while bursting through dogma, he shares passionately and uniquely in his workshops, podcast, and content on how to cultivate healing and potentiation through health sovereignty. An expert in Taoist tonic herbalism, Mason has helped tens of thousands of people globally discover medicinal mushrooms, adaptogenic tonic herbs, and the healing philosophy from which they emerged. Mason is also a budding comedian; bursting the bubble on the “health scene” with his antics.
Tahnee Taylor
Tahnee is a self proclaimed nerd, with a love of the human body, its language and its stories. A cup of tonic tea and a human interaction with Tahnee is a gift! A beautiful Yin Yoga teacher and Chi Ne Tsang practitioner, Tahnee loves going head first into the realms of tradition, yogic philosophy, the organ systems, herbalism and hard-hitting research. Tahnee is the business brains behind SuperFeast, wife to Mason, and devoted mama to Aiya and baby Leo, the newest addition to the Taylor family.
Resource guide
Guest Links
Tahnee's website
Tahnee's Instagram
Mason's Instagram
Mentioned In This Episode
The Continuum Project Book
Difficult Conversations Book
Related Podcasts
The Birthing of Our Son (Part 1) with Tahnee and Mason (EP#163)
The Birthing Of Our Son (Part 2) with Tahnee and Mason (EP#167)
Connect With Us
SuperFeast Instagram
SuperFeast Facebook
SuperFeast TikTok
Check Out The Transcript Below:
Mason:
Okay. Gangs back together in the podcast room.
Tahnee Taylor:
Woop, woop.
Mason:
It's good to have you back on the pod.
Tahnee Taylor:
Thank you.
Mason:
And to be doing, yeah. These are always, always favourites. We never get to do them in the studio. We always had to do them at home. This is a treat.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah. We're not on the floor, surrounded by soft furnishings.
Mason:
And sleeping babies.
Tahnee Taylor:
And sleeping babies. Yeah.
Mason:
That wakes up and then is breastfeeding during a...
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah. Babies.
Mason:
Had lots of those. I don't know why I felt a little reluctant doing this one, but it's by far, I think, the number one request is on parenting. And a lot of the wording that's been put out there is conscious parenting, which I know what people are talking about 100%. Conscientious engaged parenting. I don't know why. I think it's a pretty generic thing to say. I don't like using the word conscious. I think conscientious engaged parenting. I don't think there's really a divide. I really don't know. I know that there are people who are actively not trying to be engaged as parents, who are dealing with their own shit, so on and so forth. I know I'm a fence sitter in around this, but just want to get really clear from the start that saying that there is conscious parenting and say we're doing it.
And there are people that are not doing conscious parenting, I really don't buy into that. I don't feel like anyone listening really buys into that. We've had those conversations a lot. Maybe we can flesh out what we mean by that conscientious engaged parenting. And I also just want to acknowledge, I know a lot of us had... I had my parents divorce at two. You've talked, people know a little bit that we've all got stuff. Everyone listening's got a parent's stuff and there's a lot of memes going around where you can see the older generation yelling at the child. And then this generation putting up a guard against that genetic line of our parents and grandparents not being not conscious parents. And I just really want to, maybe I was talking about 95% of the population of so well intended and so doing the best they can and are engaged and being conscientious and not just doing the best with what they have.
It's just literally we are living in this golden era right now where we can move to these communities. Online communities, Byron Bay area's got such a high level of engagement when it comes to parenting and people are in awakening phases when they come naturally, they're open to more less conventional parenting styles, breaking out of the system that leads to more possibilities in the way that you can parent. And we've just got access to so many books, so many wisdom traditions now. So much modern science, so much modern psychology. We're living in this golden era, so let's just say props to our grandparents and our parents and everyone who really, there's actually that 95% who aren't psychos who are really, really... They were consciously engaged to the best of their ability. And can you imagine just what it would've been like being in those industrial ages, post-war ages, and it was just everyone was on in society. It was just head down, bum up. This is the only way to parent.
Tahnee Taylor:
I think we feel really similarly about this topic. When it was first suggested, I was like, oh gosh. Not that I don't have anything to say, I'm really proud of how we parent and how I parent, but more just, I think, the language and the frame that there's a more betterer way. I think everyone's just working it out. Most of us have the way we were raised and then the sort of culture and society that we're in and the people we're around and then all of these sort of influences. And then we sort of have to unpick that and say, "Well, what's really true for me?" And I think that's been the biggest journey for me as a parent, is coming back to how do I want to... What kind of relationship do I want to have with my kids and where do I want to be when they're older?
And how do I use that to inform the choices I'm making in the moment with these little people that I'm around? And I think that's where I got to with the word conscious where I was like, I'm actually thinking about the impact of the choices I'm making as a parent, which I guess the alternative, being reactive and not aware. Again, I think so many people don't have the time or the energy or the resources to make those choices as well and I want to... Like you said, I think if you're just surviving, it can be really challenging to bring light to those aspects of ourselves. It takes a lot to hold ourselves as we watch ourselves do things that maybe we aren't proud of. So yeah, I think it's a slippery conversation, but I think we like slippery conversations. I think you've set up really beautifully that this isn't about condemning choices people make or even moments in parenting that aren't perfect.
I've had many unperfect moments as a parent and will continue to. And the biggest lesson in that for me has just been, I want my daughter and now my son, to be able to own their mistakes and own the things that go wrong and repair after things happen. And so I'm trying to use the things that I don't win at as ways of modelling the kind of behaviour I want to be. And so that's been, I want to see them have, and I think that's the thing that I've found most useful is thinking long term. I think about myself now.
I want my kids, I want to evolve the relationship through the stages of their life that I don't treat them like children when they're 20. I don't treat them 20-year-olds when they're 40. And I can constantly grow as a parent with them through the stages of their lives and learn to let go of them at each stage. So that's the piece that I've been really sitting with a lot. And that's actually, I've been reading a book about boundaries with kids. I think it's literally called Boundaries with Children. And so much has been coming up for me around where it's easy to have these... Just because of the way I was parented or things I've seen in my culture, how it's easy to internalise these things as normal.
And I can't think of any examples right now, but that book has been really, I've been highlighting a lot of it and really kind of like, whoa. And I've been applying a lot of it to Aya, especially who's six now. And it's just like, she's not a baby. She's starting to want independence. How can I give her age appropriate independence? I listened to this radio show with these 90 year old women the other day right. It was on Bay FM, which is the Byron Bay radio station. And they've recently closed an aged care facility. And one of the interviewers had gone there and spoken to all of these older people and they were talking about their childhoods and what they'd been through. And I was like, man, kids these days don't have to go through anything. They've-
Mason:
What about when my step grandfather-
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah.
Mason:
What about when we went and talked to talk to him in, when we dropped by and we heard the stories of his childhood, [inaudible 00:07:44] in the country-
Tahnee Taylor:
Even listening to Enid Blyton with Aiya, the children are free-range, they're responsible for sheep and cows and being up at four to milk the cows.
Mason:
Enid Blyton.
Tahnee Taylor:
Enid Blyton, sort of old English author. But I think there was, and then I heard this other thing that was six-year-olds used to be on the Captain Cook exploring ships and stuff. And because they were so nimble and light, but they had a job, they were responsible for things. And I'm like, man, she can get herself ready for school in the morning without me nagging her. And I said, we even had an incident today where she's like, "I want to catch the bus." And I'm like, "To show me that you can catch the bus, you need to be completely ready on your own without me nagging you." And she did it. Her auntie helped brush her hair and stuff, but she did it all of it on her own without me bothering her.
Mason:
That's the pendulum swing. I think that's a, not sorry to bring it back to memes all the time, but I remember the meme that said, maybe it was for boomers. It was like, "I want to be successful so my kids can have a better life than I do." And then you see 30 years later, kids having a better life than that they have. And the boomers angry at them, just complaining about how you have no idea how easy you have it. I also think it's fair enough because we're swung and we are probably a part of that community that's really soft and really Yin.
Tahnee Taylor:
Well, I think about just from my childhood, I didn't really have any... I looked after my brother and things, so I had some responsibilities in that regard. But I feel like my parents were really very lenient with things like chores and stuff. We didn't really do much in the way of keeping the house. And we have Guinea pigs at home and Aiya never looked after them. And I'm thinking about this and I'm like, I'm not going to let the Guinea pigs die, but not looking after an animal, the consequence is it dies. And I've got that internalised responsibility through having pets my whole life. But I'm noticing that she hasn't really had that hard lesson yet. And I'm not going to starve the Guinea pigs, nobody worry. But I'm trying to think of a way to show her that there is a consequence to asking for a pet and then not tending to it.
And I think these are the things, that's where the boundary book's been really interesting to me. And I think about the swing in the generations over the last period of time is people I guess are... I feel like there's a bit of trying to protect people from hard things and hard lessons. And I'm not saying that war and famine and all these things are great, but the way they build resilience, if you've ever read Man's Search for Meaning, that book is insane. That guy has been through hell and he is one of the wisest, most insightful people and it's deeply moving to read that book and see how much.. Like you think of Mandela who was in prison and he used that to become more saintly. Gandhi, a lot of these people went through a lot of challenges.
Mason:
Well, is that the word harmony comes up? Because I've been thinking a lot here about, I've been present to some pretty pretentious conversations around parenting here, whether it's in the Shire or not and elsewhere, especially when if you just go to a shopping centre and I've been with people who, and we've seen a kid on an iPad with a Happy meal and it's just like, oh my God, how can you be that unconscious about it?
I'm just like, oh man. Can you just first of all, ease up because yeah, we're looking at, yes, that's extreme. I don't agree with that style of parenting, but that that's such a huge part of the bell curve that is just following along with how society is set up and since we're trying to move society along and we're trying to co-evolve here as much as possible. And so at that point, I've met a lot of iPad watching kids who eat Maccas, who have parents who I'm like, "I kind of prefer hanging out with you at the moment because you are really open to hearing other..." Or why would you do that for opening... They're open to hearing the situation. Sorry, I got up early. I'm just kind of running into it. I think you know what I'm trying to say.
There are so many people that enter into the conscious parenting community who are not in harmony themselves because they're trying to go back and process their own trauma. And we haven't as a society really integrated those as those phases of life where we support kids to go through hardships and go through their initiations so that they don't have to go through extreme wartime things. Almost the universe doesn't have to manufacture, not that these things aren't going to be manufactured in many different ways.
There's trauma that can be done in many ways, but we can understand, all right, we don't need to throw them into the military in order to get them hardened up. But at the same time, maybe we've swung a little bit back and we're not making them resilient. Maybe it is just all soft, mushy foods. There's no food that they never like and all right, you can get ideal around, oh my kid has to be... Reading the Kitchen Confidential Bourdain in France at one point was just like, that's it. I'm going to eat every disgusting thing that they put in front of me. And I then sometimes I look at Aiya not wanting to try the slightest spice infused international dish and damn it, be like Bourdain.
Tahnee Taylor:
He was eight and she's six. Give her time.
Mason:
But I guess, well, and also you look at the kids again, the extreme of mushiness of society and non-engagement, which I think is shifting heavily around kids never been put in dangerous situations, kids not being trusted to be barefoot in a park, not being trusted to be near ledgers and edges. I think that's really extremism, that's worth pointing out. That's uncomfortable. But there's ways to be in the middle. We're not saying when the good old days where women... I think the pendulum needs to stop swinging. And you need to really be in a state of holding multiple ideas at the same time and get back into harmony.
Tahnee Taylor:
Well, I think the thing that I'm really getting out of this boundaries book is the parent's pendulum can be swinging, but the child needs that stable, consistent process of moving against something that doesn't yield and that gives them the chance to form and grow. And it's very Taoist to me actually because I think a lot about the elements and even just to take it on a really macro level, nature isn't gentle and kind, nature is savage. And when I think you're talking about being around ledgers and stuff, which made me think of that book, the continuum concept, and she speaks to that.
She speaks about going to the Amazon and seeing children being allowed to play near pits or at the river's edge when they're one year old. And our babies, both of our babies were very much allowed to explore edges. And I still see people in the park kind of panicking or running up to me when Leo's doing something and I'm like, "He's fine, he's fine. He knows what he's doing." But people really get stressed out about that. And I think this is where it's like, we take away the chance for them to develop the capacity to trust their own instincts and their own sort of sovereignty. And that's the piece I think that I'm interested in this boundary thing because if a child is pushing against something, it gives them a chance to be creative. It's like, okay, well how do I navigate this if I can't get what I want?
Mason:
Can I ask you if you haven't-
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah.
Mason:
You talked about your pendulum can be swinging as a parent, but it can't of the kids. But the thing, what happens is how often... The thing I like about I respect around your parenting is you'll read these different books with different philosophies and engage with them to an extent.
Tahnee Taylor:
I never follow any of them fully.
Mason:
But I feel like I always... I'm so shocked, therefore you're talking about sovereignty. You do your best to integrate it into yourself and your own style of parenting. Because regardless, if the mind isn't really strong and the parent's resilience around going, no matter what, I'm not going to dive into another dogma of just following the rules of this book. No matter how desperate you get, I understand it. And you need to, for phases for survival, if you are in a real survival phase, that's when it's like, okay, you just give me the rules and I'm going to follow it so I don't have to think for myself. I think that's fine, but that's leaking Jing because that's dogma. But the amount of times we've talked to people we've... Parents who, and I've been there as well, so I do it with other areas, not parenting so much, but I've done it in many other areas.
So I completely understand it, but it still takes me aback every time I hear someone going, or you've talked to another mother and they're like, "I'm just using this philosophy now and I think it's it and that's it. I'm all on board." And I'm like, oh man, yeah, that's right. I forgot... And that is a pendulum swing and that is going to impact the kid because your foundations aren't so solid and you're not like, "I'm just going to work with it for a little bit, integrate the parts that I think are necessary and then keep on moving." Which I understand if you're...
That's where I guess the most conscious part of parenting is I think we've really been working on, which was been a bit difficult with the pandemic and then the floods and my mum moving up and having another kid is realising when your lifestyle isn't so appropriate to where you are at life, that you aren't walking on eggshells with your energy so you're not leaking anything. And it's because you're within with what we call the Spirit of the Kidneys, the Zhi, your capacity and you're not beyond your capacity because you're going to get taken into new areas that are going to test you with kids and all these life things. But when you are on your edges, extremely on your edges, that's where you need a dogmatic philosophy or vices.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah, well that's where survival patterns kick in. And I think had a funny... So I did this course for a year or nine months with Leo after he was born and it was with Jane Hardwicke Collings, who's well known for doing work with women. And she and I had a chat about some of my stuff and it was really funny because I was like, "Yeah, I was super enlightened and then I met Mason had kids and it just all went back to shit again." And she just laughed and she was like, "Yeah, you've just integrated it to that level and now it's spiral dynamics. You've got to go back around and integrate it in relationship and with children." And I see that that's where I think I have a lot of compassion for people that, I'm quite lucky that I don't think my destructive habits are so destructive. As in, I think having done a lot of stuff over the years, I've come to a place where my pendulum is pretty, you live with me. Is that fair to say? It's pretty narrow.
Mason:
Yeah. Way narrower than mine.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah. Yes. But I think it's really important that I honour that, but also that I honour my pendulum. So I want to be really clear, I'm going to backtrack to that statement. The child doesn't need to see your pendulum. You pendulum, but you pendulum with your friends and with your community and with your teachers and with whatever. But the kid gets consistency as much as you can provide it. And again, there's no perfection here, but that's reading that and then reflecting on myself as a parent, that's when I've been most successful is when my process is supported and held outside of my sort of family dynamic really. And then the kids get the best of me. I'm able to really... I know that I'm sort of held out here and I'm able to deliver my best self as a parent. And that also for me came through reflecting on, yeah, it's nervous system stuff, what you're speaking to.
Yeah, if you were locked in an apartment for the last two years, if you are kids watching TV and eating happy meals, no drama, you're doing your best. As in, I think there's so much external stuff that it's hard to control. So that's where, and I'm lucky to have been trained in things like yoga and breathing and things. So I do catch myself, I've been thinking about this breath work trend a lot lately because I'm seeing it everywhere. Breath work, breath work, nervous system regulation, breath work. And I'm really excited for people to be exposed to breath work because I think it's really important. And I'm also curious as to some of the ways it's being taught. I'm like, "Interesting," but I've noticed that that's something that I do. I have an internalised pattern of self-regulation that when I hit a certain point, I can sometimes, not always, flip over into a breath that brings me down, stops my nervous system from accelerating.
So I think those kinds of things that people can use as external tools are really helpful, especially when you're around little kids and they want to push your buttons. But yeah, I guess I'm trying to say that one thing I think that helps with children, especially when they're... Because I think the thing with kids is their energy will match whatever's going on. So if I escalate, I will escalate and then it will escalate. Whereas if I can regulate and get on her level and be like, "Hey, cool, but we're going to not do that."
Mason:
Yeah. That's one of the most awesome, being aware of it is awesome. But it's one of the most annoying things about having kids of how it's the same as the way that you do one thing is the way you do everything and you're like "Shut up. I don't want to hear that right now. It's just too true. It's just too much of a mirror." And then if you are able to witness your life and the world and the universe in a non-linear way, if you've had experiences that open you up or maybe you just naturally have that perception, you can feel how real that is because you can very easily go in the logic of "No, no, no, I do really good over here. I'm really good at my job and I'm just not really good as a parent." And you're like, "No." But sorry, the other one, what you were saying in terms of kiddies mirroring you, I just wanted want to hear, because I actually haven't talked to you much about the boundaries.
Tahnee Taylor:
No, I'm still reading it
Mason:
And we've had little chats come getting the concepts through seeing little upgrades in the way that you do things. But again, I do want to hear because knowing the influence of what is the boundary in terms of, no, I'm just going to have this rich boundary.
Tahnee Taylor:
You see boundaries is such a pop culture word.
Mason:
Oh, it's such a shitty word.
Tahnee Taylor:
The only reason I'm using it is because of the book.
Mason:
Well no, but boundaries is a great word, looking at the dynamic.
Tahnee Taylor:
And this is the thing I think, so I'm going to put it into how I see it in Taosit terms too, because I've been sitting with this a bit. And so the Spleen is the mother. So many people like us are attracted to the work that we do because we have shitty, shitty boundaries. And I'm just putting that out there. You can hate mail me if you must, but-
Mason:
Why would they?
Tahnee Taylor:
It's true. I see it. Well because I think people don't like to be told that. I didn't like to be told that at the beginning. I was like, "What are you talking about? I just want to help people."
Mason:
Oh yeah. Because then that is when you, at some point you realise hopefully you didn't shoot your mouth off and position yourself as an absolute expert. Because when you are told you don't have great boundaries and that's why you got attracted this work, you realise you're a little bit of a two-minute noodle and you've been moving ahead. That's my experience of it anyway. Maybe you're saying that's why people don't like it because it's like, "Hey, you're not as hot as you think yet."
Tahnee Taylor:
No, I'm going to explain it more then. That's good. So basically this is my current understanding based on where I'm at in my life. So take it with a grain of salt I guess. But I see a lot of people that are drawn to yoga, naturopathy, healing arts, kind of massage, these things. They are usually carrying a mother wound of some kind. And usually it's-
Mason:
I wonder what that's like. We're literally in the middle of my disabled mother moving up, a week in from my mother moving up from Sydney to Byron Bay.
Tahnee Taylor:
Say pause and have a drink. Is there whiskey in this cup? No. I don't even like whiskey unfortunately. I wish I liked whiskey. It's really cool.
Mason:
You don't have enough Irish blood.
Tahnee Taylor:
I do. Anyway, where was I? Mother wound. Yeah. And what I mean by a mother wound is not necessarily that your mother didn't do her best and all of those various things, but we're kids and we take on things because of how we come in karmically and then all of the stuff we're exposed to. And usually, there's a sense of it's my job, it's my responsibility, it's holding a lot, it's carrying more than what you should and it's an enmeshment. So a lack of healthy boundaries and a sense of you and me, mother and self and an inability to actually separate properly. So it's the placenta is still attached to kind of thing. And that's energetically not obviously physically. And I'm not saying this is everybody, but I would be pretty willing to put money down that it's a decent chunk of people in the healing world.
And I don't think that's a bad thing because those wounds are what make you a good healer. So I just want to be very clear about that. But if you don't let them come into the light of your awareness and bring consciousness to them, they become this sort of background puppeteers of your reality. And that's why you see so many people, again, this is a generalisation, but one that I've seen over and over again, coming up with digestive issues and these kinds of either holding a lot of weight or a lot of fluid-
Mason:
Wet Heat.
Tahnee Taylor:
The damp, it's soggy soil and it comes, this is in the Taoist terms, this the manifestation of Spleen Qi issues. So either deficiency or excess. But yeah. And I guess what I think of when those people have children, myself included, is it's really easy to repeat that pattern and not foster a sense of individuation and separation in the child.
And again, this has to be done really mindfully because one, the baby needs to be very enmeshed with you, at six, a little bit less so at 14, a lot less so, there's a whole bunch of different appropriate boundaries as the child ages. But this is what I've been sitting with a lot for the last couple of years is like, how do I facilitate... How do I work on my own mother wound and my own poor boundaries for want of a better word, and then in order to model to my child, especially my daughter being my firstborn, that she can also have those and she's already showing me that she's got them. So I think that's incredible.
Mason:
Sorry?
Tahnee Taylor:
Really healthy boundaries and a really strong sense of herself and her individuation and that process.
Mason:
Yeah, and it's been interesting and I know why it activates the wound when you're like, you go to, you see a kid blossoming at that age. And I think, or showing out of a boundary, I've kind of talked a lot, I think I've chatted to you sometimes when I watch people. You let alone kids communicate not only a healthy boundary, but they've got connection to themselves at that point where they know exactly what they want and I'm like, oh my God, I'm still confused. I'm so confused about what I want. And it's brought up a lot of good material for me.
Tahnee Taylor:
You're self parenting while you parent, but that's what I mean, your pendulum to them has to be... I think this can change as you get older too. So as they get older, I think one thing, the distinction between parenting adult children and young children at the moment, I don't have adult children, but I'm assuming is that they can start to see you as more human and you can share your trials and tribulations with them. And I actually would think that would be, as a child of adult parents, I think that would be a really incredible thing.
Mason:
I think that needs to be done really mindfully around appropriateness. I think that's where we need to be if we've got those cuts and we've got those wounds. And it's just, I think we've talked about it quite a lot on the podcast recently, I think Jimmy Wollumbin's podcast was all about the wounded healer and I think it was Buddhas, well that's where the light gets in.
Tahnee Taylor:
Leonard Cohen said that, who was the Buddhist.
Mason:
Okay, right.
Tahnee Taylor:
From one of his-
Mason:
He's incarnated.
Tahnee Taylor:
He might be.
Mason:
He just, the fact of, yeah, all right, you're always going to have them and you've got to integrate them. And I think that's where all these little phases in life, I know for me letting go of particular identities, because I'm such an extremist, I go so hard into a phase of life and identity and this is I'm going to be for the rest of my life. And then I'm like, "Shit I got to circle background and integrate this. This one's going to sting and I'm getting better. But making sure I'm doing that as I go along." But I guess in direct, what I actually wanted to talk about was just really being mindful to not just open the floodgates and okay, it's having a business. There's a phase when we were like, yeah, let's just be blurt everything always to the entire team. And then we're like, "No, this is-"
Tahnee Taylor:
That was not a good idea.
Mason:
And it's not a good idea for them. It's not like we're holding anything back. There's just appropriateness. And I think we've got to be really mindful going-
Tahnee Taylor:
Of being adults. I don't think, I don't know. I don't even-
Mason:
Even then.
Tahnee Taylor:
And I don't know, I think that's the biggest distinction that I probably can't speak to yet because I don't have adult kids. But I think having... They're not your friends and that's something-
Mason:
I guess that's what I'm saying
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah, and that's what I mean about that pendulum swinging around here and you have your support networks and the people that you know speak to about your things and then you can... I think sharing the lessons is amazing. I would really, I think as an adult child, I'd love to hear my parents speak to me about how they navigated things and what they learned out of them. Our friends, Tanya and Wolfegang to do that a lot for us. They talk about they've been married for 37 years or something and they share with us as friends, things that they've learned in their relationship.
Mason:
But it's not... And the best thing about it is it's not about them when they're sharing it. They're really keen on sharing the story and the fable and that's all that-
Tahnee Taylor:
And that to me is a really great way to have, again, don't have adult kids, but to have a relationship with your adult kids is to let them live their lives. No control. It's not about you. But if they're interested in, we asked about relationships and they told us and I think that's a really nice thing and I think that's where that elderhood can come in as a parent is providing. And I'm also, I literally have a diary where I write down all the shit that I hope I remember when I'm old for Aiya's sake, like "Just go around the house and do the laundry for her, put a meal on the doorstep and don't come in," stuff that just, I'm like, "Oh, if someone did that right now, it would be so good." So there's little things that I'm like, because I'll forget them. I've already noticed that with having a six-year-old having, I have a one-year old again and I'm like, what do they do? When do they walk? Do they talk?
And it's like, yeah, I just think you forget stuff so quickly. And I see that in our older community as they've really forgotten what it's like to have little kids and they're like, why can't you come to the dance party? Or why can't you come out to dinner? I'm like, have you sat at a dinner table with a one-year old who won't sit in a high chair? It's awful.
Mason:
That's had a real impact on us. I mean, Aiya, I think we've probably... I think this is fair. We've been disappointed at how the few of the older people in our lives, the extent to which they've forgotten and then they're like, gosh, they're just become judgemental a little bit at times. I mean for little snippets anyway, I've always been like-
Tahnee Taylor:
No, yeah. I was talking to another friend about this the other day and what's interesting where we got to and I think could possibly be something you agree with is they didn't have that support. So they actually project and get a bit, they go back into their trigger around not being supported and then they almost get a bit like, "Well we did it, why can't you do it?" And I've actually had that sort of stuff thrown at me a couple of times by some older women I know. And I was like, "Interesting." And I think that's, they're at the phase where they just want to rest and not have any responsibility and that's kind of their unhealed aspects of theirselves that are being projected out onto us.
Mason:
Oh, this is what we talk about a lot for having the Jing in you when you get to that older phase of life. And just to spout the wisdom of a friend of ours, I'm not judging, I'm like, "We'll see how we go. I haven't gone through it yet."
Tahnee Taylor:
That's why I'm making notes.
Mason:
You can see that is not creating a close bond. And if they had their way, if they had the capacity, they would most likely go through the integration into elderhood and they were able to let go of the way they did things and all those shoulds and woulds and be present and learn. And then that's when you see these emerging elders that despite not knowing how modern parenting might look, they've just got this embodied wisdom that just emanates from them and you want them around and they're able to essentially still be that parent to you as you are discovering parenting for yourself as you would with a kid is above. So below, you're going right, I'm going to respect you and be there with you and I'll share when appropriate and-
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah. And that to me, what I'm noting to myself in the future is that is the real thing of, is mid-wifeing and again, this course I just did last year really brought that home for me. It's just being there for someone and letting them find their way and not doing it for them. And that's such a, I think that last generation, there was a real tweak there, especially for women where that martyrdom and that real, I have to do everything for everyone and getting in there when you've not been asked to and you don't have to, it's such a slippery one. And I see it a lot in women I guess because I see more women probably, but I'm sure men have that same habit too.
But yeah, it's something I think about a lot and I'm also like, "Well what does that actually teach my daughter if I'm always bailing her out or doing things for her? How does she actually learn to be independent?" And I didn't know how to use a washing machine when I left home. Just a really dumb example. But I didn't, I called my mum and I was like, "I just moved into this place and it has a washing machine now how do I use it?" And I think that's crazy that I don't know how, my ex's mum used to do my laundry before that because I just didn't know.
Mason:
And that's how I'm like, I hadn't changed oil in a car before.
Tahnee Taylor:
I'm super practical about that stuff. I'm like, the kids need to learn that shit, I think.
Mason:
Yeah. And that's where I guess, I know for me, the split, my dad didn't engage in that because he was just so worried about pushing me away if he got me to do anything I slightly didn't like because I was living in two separate houses. And that's where the staying together as a family unit and continuing to have that evolutionary part of your relationship, we've talked about having utility first foundation, making sure that you're compatible with being in life together and then having love.
And then third being that evolutionary aspect of, I think that's a really good order to have it in which, and I think it is necessary to have all of those, but then you've seen a lot of conscious uncoupling and just seeing that there's still a unified front there, a boundary. It's been one of the greatest things to see that really explode because then you can stay unified in that facilitating even, let's say with the utility, practically ensuring that the kids aren't going to go, "Well fine, you want to make me do this, I'm just going to run over to dad and he's going to be on my side and use this against you and I'm going to be able to worm out of doing this thing."
Tahnee Taylor:
I don't have much of an experience with divorce personally, but I think I keep thinking about this book I read called Difficult Conversations as well. And another part of that Spleen thing is people pleasing and wanting to be everyone's friend and wanting to help everyone and never make anyone unhappy with you. And I think a lot about what can happen with kids and ourselves if we aren't... That piece to me of actually just saying the thing to the person, just having the hard conversation.
I don't know, your mum and dad could have said, if Paul could've gone, "Hey I really want to teach Mace these things, can you help me?" And could've been on the same team That could've been a really powerful experience for you and whatever, it is what it is. But I think about that a lot too. How do we keep communicating as parents, even when you're in a relationship, it can be really hard to not... I can go days without properly seeing you really. It's like you come home, you take the baby to bed, I take Aiya to bed, we're both cooked, we have a shower or whatever, go to sleep. It's not a whole lot of time to have a deep conversation around, where are the kids at, do we need to teach them anything? It's just like, well even Aiya caught the bus for the first time today and you didn't know till afterward because it sort of happens spontaneously and yeah, there's a lot of stuff that happens day to day.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean that's where the basics come down. If we're going to go back to utility when life gets crazy busy, which we haven't been the best on is date night, then date night, that's just about connecting and then just talking about life admin and finances and then talking about calendars and then just jams in. We're kind of getting there, but-
Tahnee Taylor:
We've got better at calendars.
Mason:
The other thing just before we hop off, because we're going to be better at boundaries with sticking clock is king because quite often we get to two hours and we're like, crap. I think you mentioned before, I can't remember the exact context, but you were remembering when your kid gets to 20 and relating them to a 20-year-old and then as a 40-year-old, I can't remember what the context was there, but then you were saying how they're not friends and I know the word may have different meanings and some people feel like they've got a particular friendship, father, son, mother, daughter. So don't want to shit on any of how you relate to it. But broad sense, they're not a friend, they're a child. And relating to them as such. And then I was just thinking about again, a big pendulum swing where in say in society there's kind of like, yes, the kids are say respected, but they're just a child and they could just go to a homogenous daycare centre and go to a homogenous school and there's kind of maybe not a lot of specialness put in there.
It's like, it's fine if we distract them with this, I'm fine if they eat that, it doesn't really matter. And then the other extreme is just like, oh my god, this wise being is my teacher. And that I feel is a really inappropriate, both of them I feel is inappropriate in terms of [Tahnee says "it's very Mullumbimby"] and I get it. But relating, I feel like there's the other one that I just want to talk about in terms of the way that you're relating to our kids and where you see that coming in verse, it doesn't matter.
Tahnee Taylor:
I just think that their enlightened being is the projection of, you want someone to think you're an enlightened being. That, to me, is just really someone who really is longing to be seen. I think that's fine, but I would just... Do some excavation work. And I think the other end of that is apathy, which again comes from a lack of connection to self really. And I think people like that, taking the easy route I guess is, look, I'm mixed on public education and stuff. I really want to be clear, I loved my public schools and loved school and really thrived in those environments. And I really believe in, there are some teachers out there that, they are just amazing humans and they want the best and it's really incredible. And the flip side of that is there is a lot of unconsciousness and other stuff going on too, but I think that can happen in any environment.
But just what I think is, I think if I'm thinking about what conscious parenting really means, it's using that... To me, it's just another spiritual journey. If you can't do plant medicine and yoga and all these things and not see parenting as the same thing, it's the longest trip you'll ever go on. And I remember feeling that when I held Aiya. I was like, "Fuck, I've just signed up to something that I had not capacitated for" in a really nice way, but it was intimidating and really daunting to me that I was responsible for the care of someone else who, not just the physical care, which I'm pretty comfortable with, but the emotional and mental and spiritual care of someone. And to me, I try and just constantly think, "Who is she?" Leo to a lesser extent because I guess he's still very much in that he's a baby and he's my little pal, but who is she? She loves dancing and I've got this thing against dancing and I'm like, been meaning to talk to you.
You can do it live in the podcast. But she loves dancing, which she should probably be in dancing because it brings her so much joy. And I don't like it because I think it's not good for their bodies and I don't like that wear makeup and all of this stuff. But I need to be able to trust her to follow the joy and not actually... Those are the things I think as a parent, it's so important for me anyway, to be really aware of what's my projection and what's my story and what's actually true for her or Leo as he gets older.
And I mean, I can already feel Leo's probably going to love footy and he's just a boofy, good-natured.... I don't know, I just can see him sitting in the Newy pub drinking a beer after a game. I don't know why, but I always have this visual of him and I'm like, oh my God, really? But I'm like, you know what? That'll be so fun to have a blokey son and it's weird to project that onto a baby and I'm trying really hard not to go there. But I think that's the nature of the kids. I don't know, I feel like Aiya was the same. Her essence was so clear to me the minute I met her and Leo.
Mason:
Well, I think that's an interesting thing. I mean, you are putting words to a sense of the essence. And this is what our Shen is. There's an infinite aspect of our shen which can only be sensed, it can't be seen. And then there's the slow expression of that Shen, the external Shen, which is the personality of the traits and the virtues. And we can go start to get a flavour of that infinite essence that's there and you can get a sense of it. And we've only been through enough as much as we've been through. Therefore, that feeling of that Heart perception of an infinite essence of Leo comes through.
Tahnee Taylor:
I lived in Newcastle, hence the reference.
Mason:
Your words and that goes through the eart. Then it goes up to the brain, the brain goes, "This is what I've got to explain what I'm seeing there. And then that goes through." Yeah, I just think then the part of that process is then we don't send those words back down to the heart to then feel again with the words. And then that's where I think everyone doesn't do enough is adjust, act and adjust. Act and adjust. Perceive, sense, feel, feel it. Words, yeah, this is this philosophy. Oh okay, no, no, no, send that philosophy back down to the Heart so that you can engage with the words and that the Heart can't provide, which is tangibility. And then the Heart will continue to feel and adjust and be like, "No, this is no longer inappropriate philosophy for you to be, these aren't great words anymore because it's not really fleshing out and matching the energetic expression of what you're feeling, whether it's the interest of a child or who that child is."
And I feel like that's a really dangerous thing. Who's that poet? The Irish poet you talked about, you went with Farley to see him.
Tahnee Taylor:
David Whyte.
Mason:
David Whyte. And I think about it a lot is that, breaking promises.
Tahnee Taylor:
You can think about that a lot too.
Mason:
Yes. You are going to be like, oh my God, I got such a download of this is who they are and this is who they're going to be. And then there's going to be, and I think they're really appropriate, but sometimes, something's going to be so sure for you and then you're going to have to go through a refinement phase. And that's what the Metal is all about.
Tahnee Taylor:
That's parenting one 101.
Mason:
All right. You're actually going to have to drop that opinion and refine it into something else and oh hey, guess what? Maybe they're not some super spiritual being that's here to be an eco warrior. I think we had... We've met some parents who were like, who brought through this. And I'm like, and I think that's fine at any particular point, as long as you are growing as a person, you can have enough of a boundary. Don't vomit it all over your kid too early.
Tahnee Taylor:
Well I think hopefully, Leo only hears this when he's an adult. But yeah, I wouldn't say this to him. And that's the piece I think around the pendulum is I try and hold for all of... And Aiya, I try and hold a real spaciousness for who they might become. I hold for myself, I have thought I am things many times and then I've been like, "Oh whoa, here's this whole nother aspect of myself that I didn't know existed." And I'm feel like I'm in that a little bit at the moment where I'm really expanding who and what I thought I was. I want that for the children to be able to, and that to me, that's, I guess the real crux of this whole thing and it could have been a two-minute podcast, is I think about who do I want them to be? Well I want them to be interested and interesting. I just want them to be engaged in their lives in however they choose to live them.
Mason:
Winds swept and interesting.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah. That's it. I don't actually have huge ambition in the sense of I don't want them to be a pilot or a-
Mason:
Do you refine interesting a little bit because I can kind of sense, I've thought about this a lot as well where I'm...
Tahnee Taylor:
I just think engaged. I really, for me, I remember having a two-hour conversation with a garbage man once because he was the most passionate garbage man ever. And I thought, "Well, amazing, like amazing. You're just so into what you do and you know so much about it and it's your life, it's your world." And I don't think anyone, all the people I really love are like that. They're just so engaged with life, whatever they do. And that to me, I think is... I guess when I see... Yeah, I guess apathy probably is something I'm not super excited about if I saw that in my kids. But maybe that would have to be part of their journey. I don't know.
Mason:
And if he does become a footy boofhead, as you know, I don't know if we've discussed it on the podcast. Me and my brother were in the mortuary, waiting to go and tend to my recently deceased father's body and wash his hair and do all that kind of stuff. And because it was COVID, the woman was late because her team was sick and we were like figured out that maybe it's a good goal for us to look, first of all for Hayden to come and work for us, which is happening in the month or a month and a half, and that we should probably buy the Balmain Tigers or the West Tigers. And it's just an interesting little thing whether it happens or not, that unifies us as brothers. And then yesterday Anthony Wiggle announced he's a Balmain Tigers fan and he wants to do the same. So we're thinking we'll align with him in the future. It's a bit of a long term goal.
Tahnee Taylor:
Wiggles and the mushroom people together at last.
Mason:
Anthony follows SuperFeast and Me.
Tahnee Taylor:
Hello Anthony, if you're listening,
Mason:
Hello Anthony again. I'm sure you're a big fan of the podcast.
Tahnee Taylor:
Conscious Parenting.
Mason:
But just so you know, have an operational juggernaut here, a business operational juggernaut that can use-
Tahnee Taylor:
So you're saying we'll use nepotism to give Leo a job in football?
Mason:
Well, if he wants, it's just an option there. Again, no projection onto here.
Tahnee Taylor:
I don't know how I grew up with a football father in a football town and I've ended up marrying a football man.
Mason:
Well, I wasn't a football man when we got together.
Tahnee Taylor:
That's true. I thought I escaped, but I didn't.
Mason:
And look, I kind of came back to it for just something to ground me, to be honest. And it was also the one thing where me and my dad and my brother, we always had that to talk about. So that was back when I really didn't even want to talk or about football or have anything to do with it. I'd go back and watch the highlights of the Tigers game. So I had something to talk to dad and Hayden about.
I think, look, one thing, and I mean, I enjoy watching the big games, but one thing I'm seeing and just, I won't speak to stuff we know that's maybe private, but I'm seeing a real shift in how these games are played and the types of people playing them in the sense that there's... To be at the top of your game. So just to be really clear that I'm not against football, but yeah, I think to be a master of your domain in any way is really incredible. And the people that are... I know a lot of people that were playing and went on to play and I think they've all awesome guys too. So yeah, this is being a bit facetious when I said they're all boofheads.
Mason:
I guess, but this is the interesting thing around, because I know you can get very pessimistic and a lot of people get pessimistic around parenting looking at the way the world is and institutions are, and the educational institution and-
Tahnee Taylor:
People do that every single lifetime though.
Mason:
But I guess speaking to, all right, just keep on going. You've got a kid, have faith and especially just keep on focusing on where the transmutation is happening because if you do understand, say the universe, and I think it's an important thing to be able to have really strong structure, the Yang and real practical structure and be like, okay, if I go into the public education system in this particular school, what are the practical outcomes based on how much money we have? So on, so forth.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah, it's okay if you might want to be a bit more on that would be my recommendation.
Mason:
Be a bit more on, yeah. But then the other phase is it to be like, they can't touch anything that has institution aligned with it at all. And there's like just really watching those edges and just really surfing the waves of Qi as our society goes between institutionalisation and de-institutionalisation and being completely homogenous, being completely over there, sovereign, disconnected from everything and just really try and find those sweet spots.
And I guess that comes down, people go, just do the best you can, but it's more than doing the best you can. It's about being really on and really engaged and that's making the best possible decision that you can make. And I think that's a big thing around just making those decisions. And if you feel that you are making one because you're against something, well, I would suggest that it's better to do what your dogma or your mind, rigidity in mind might say, "Oh, you are compromising if you do this." But if you are making decision and you feel that it's due to your revulsion or your revolution or something like that, it's probably not worth making a decision from that point. Probably from my experience, I'd suggest there's another harmonious place, even if you feel like I never thought I'd be doing this as a parent, that's better to be in rather than resistance.
Tahnee Taylor:
I would also like to add that there are three topics we haven't discussed, which are astrology, human design, and Steiner. And they all heavily influence me and how I parent and maybe we need to do another podcast.
Mason:
Sounds good. All right everybody. This has been our part one on our conscious parenting conversation, which I hope it was just more of an insight into, well, this is just kind of how we're doing it for now and some things we've learned and we've got a lot to learn and we're also right in the middle of it. And if anything, just hope it just helps everyone stay engaged in the conversation. We definitely don't think we've got anything that we'd put into a book other than maybe a romantic comedy.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah, I don't know. I think I just really, I hope not to in any way project an air of authority or expertise in this space. Yeah, we are really working it out and I'm really proud of who our kids are. And also some days, I'm like, "What the hell is this ride? And why did we sign up for it?" So I want to be clear that it's a mixed bag, mostly very amazing. Often, whoa. And yeah.
Mason:
One of the things I guess we talk about a lot. Steiner for us, was a really great option for where we're at. But all it was, and I guess the only thing that we really, really love about it is that the kids get respected as individuals. So even though they're strong boundaries.
Tahnee Taylor:
I love heaps more things about it.
Mason:
Oh, me too. But we talk about that a lot and how it's just like, they're able to look you in the eye. And when they're teenagers and it's like everyone says, "Yeah, but that's because they're respected growing up. They're not just seen as just children." But that dynamic of them having strong boundaries and being like, we're going to respect you as an individual-
Tahnee Taylor:
And being asked to do things like, they have to clean, they have to take care of the space. They have to, they're about to knit and they have to make their own knitting needles using sandpaper and all of this stuff. And I'm like, that is responsibility and making a tool, and if that tool doesn't work, it's because you didn't do it properly. So it's going to be a pain in the to knit on a wooden knitting needle with it that's not properly standard. Stuff like that. And then having also made something practical that you can carry those knitting needles last for your entire life pretty much if you don't break them or whatever. So it's those things to me are really empowering as a person. That's where I think about sovereignty is, how do I know that I can take care of myself and I could make clothing or I could make a dish cloth or whatever, because I have these skills, I have these resources.
I'm resourced in a way that gives me confidence and safety. That, to me, is really interesting. And I mean, even knitting, a lot of the reasons they teach knitting and crocheting and things is because it gives you the fine motor skills for handwriting. It gives you the fine motor skills for cursive, and then it also teaches you to count because it's numbers, which is actually similar to coding. So if you do want to eventually end up a tech head, that's an option because you've got that sort of programming in your brain. And so there's actually a lot of really powerful reasons. Some people are like, oh, they just make beanies or whatever. It's like, no, they're learning stuff.
Mason:
Yeah. And I guess that's, yeah, where I'd want to leave it there in terms of this is, it doesn't matter whether it's homeschooling or in a public school, it doesn't matter. There's a combination of respecting them as individuals and then understanding where they are at developmentally and using some really good technology to know where their psyche's at and where their imagination's at, and then respecting it enough to teach them based on where they're at.
Tahnee Taylor:
And be engaged. I think as parents, no matter what school your kid's in, I'm the most annoying class coordinator ever.
Mason:
No, you're not. Everyone loves it.
Tahnee Taylor:
Come to class. But I just think be involved.
Mason:
People love it.
Tahnee Taylor:
Yeah. I don't want to ship a kid off
Mason:
Definitely not annoying.
Tahnee Taylor:
To class. Well, thanks. All right. We've got to go pick up our baby.
Mason:
All right, everybody. Big love.
Tahnee Taylor:
Bye. Thanks for having us.
Mason:
From the conscious parents.
