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We're delighted to welcome Myra Lewin of Hale Pule back on the show today to share her insightful dialogue in the realms of Ayurveda, yoga and business with Mason.
Myra was first on the show back in February 2020, a moment in time we all look back on now with a pivotal understanding. Back then Myra spoke with Tahnee about the foundational aspects of yoga and Ayurveda and how these tools can be used to create harmony in one's body and life.
Today Myra connects with Mason about the importance of "the why" when engaging with a personal or vocational endeavour and how her offerings through Hale Pule have changed since the pandemic when the world went primarily online.
Myra speaks to the Ayurvedic approach, of interacting with the body as a self correcting organism, and using herbs and practices to support the body's natural cyclic functions and the inherent intelligence embodied in each of its cells.
Originating from a previous life lived through the lens of the scientific medical model, Myra shares how her experiences with Ayurveda shaped her holistic understanding of the body, mind, spirit, and being as a whole, and how the linear workings of her mind are continually cracked open through the practice of Ayurveda and its governing principals.
Myra and Mason explore how many of the premier herbs of the Ayurvedic cannon are used in a casual and one dimensional fashion, especially in the contemporary field of health, and how this approach can often mask the core issue rather than resolve it, as traditionally practised via the ancient roots of this highly revered system.
Sharing their resonance for embodied health in an explorative, grounded and charming conversation, the pair provide us with deep insight, wisdom and light hearted sentiment as they explore the many similarities that Ayurveda and Taoism share.
Take a moment, take a breath and settle in for the sweet journey this episode takes us on.
A truly enjoyable listen.
"Whether it's with Taoism or whether it's with Ayurveda, these are things that bring us home to ourselves and empower us to be the human beings we're meant to be."
- Myra Lewin
Myra & Mason discuss:
- The power of "the why" in keeping focus on any endeavour; business, personal or otherwise.
- The Ayurvedic approach to health and healing.
- How the practice of Ayurveda challenges the linear based thinking present in many Western models of health.
- The importance of laughing at yourself, embracing mistakes and honouring the merits of both the ego and the higher self.
- How to begin your journey with Ayurveda and view health through the elements and doshas.
- Ayurvedic herbalism.
Who is Myra Lewin ?
Ayurvedic Practitioner (AP) and Ayurveda Yoga Therapist (AYT), Myra Lewin is a professional member of the National Ayurvedic Medical Association (NAMA) and a master yogini. Myra has amassed more than 100,000 hours of Yoga teaching experience spanning 30+ years of practice.
In 1999 Myra Lewin founded Hale Pule Ayurveda and Yoga and since then, guided thousands of individuals around the world through consultations, healings, immersive trainings and online programs including Agni Therapy, The Yoga of Eating and Flow with the Feminine. At the heart of Hale Pule is a free online community with over 20,000 members from around the world, all committed to their own healing journeys, and sharing the wisdom of Yoga and Ayurveda.
Myra is the author of several acclaimed books on Ayurvedic nourishment including, Freedom in Your Relationship with Food , Simple Ayurvedic Recipes, Dine with Myra, and Simple Ayurvedic Recipes II. Myra is also the host of two remarkable podcasts on holistic healing, “Everyday Ayurveda and Yoga at Hale Pule” and “Spark Your Intuition”.
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Mentioned In This Episode
Hale Pule Agni Therapy Online Course
Related Podcasts & Content
Ayurveda and Yoga - The Healing Arts with Myra Lewin from Hale Pule (EP#55)
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Check Out The Transcript Below:
Mason:
Hello, and thank you for coming back on the podcast. You're officially a friend of the podcast now that this is the second time that you're on the SuperFeast pod.
Myra Lewin:
Thanks so much. Yeah, it's good to be here.
Mason:
Joining us from Bali, which is nice. We're on similar time zones.
Myra Lewin:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That makes a big difference.
Mason:
Yeah. And yeah, it's been the pandemic since you were on here talking to Tahnee, and hopefully lots of good insights will come out during this chat about route weaving and relevance of what that time offered us. But as we were talking about earlier, I was going back through your interview with what we call the Friends of SuperFeast on the SuperFeast blog. And it really stood out that you were talking about having found your affinity for herbs early in life and then worked with Western herbalism and then did your corporate time as well which is quite often the badge that is needed to do this work. I often think about, I don't know why the Sid Arthur book has been coming into my mind a lot, a lot lately, because I'm in my corporate time even though it's my business, I wouldn't call it corporate, I'm getting that same go in and learn the realities of the world.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, it does. It gives you it definitely a much larger perspective on what goes on and also on how humans are our perceptions and our attitudes about things. And sometimes we don't realise what it really is until we're actually in the middle of it or doing it ourselves. So it's kind of similar with herbs too in a way, isn't it?
Mason:
Well, I guess there's a corporate version of herbs, because corporates, I mean the corporate word is quite heavy and literally corpse and I talk about it quite a bit, you can tell a business needs to pick up a corpse when the mission and core idea and purpose that sparked its creation, they need to pick up the corpse and pretend that they have a soul and kind of do what I call Weekend At Bernie's. And that's what a corporation is truly when the soul is dead. And it's amazing actually how many big businesses, the soul's still got a little glimmer, it's got a spark and it does have potential for people to engage with that essence and that muse.
Myra Lewin:
That's right. Yeah, but it's so easy to get caught up in things on the outside and lose that and get wrapped up in other things. And that's one of the things that we talk about is always why are we doing this? Always we have to keep reminding ourselves why are we doing this and not just what we're doing, but why? And that why, I think even it keeps that humanness in it and that nature connection. Then we can do the other parts that need to get done in order to function in the way we are now. But I think it does, I agree, it brings a whole different energy to what you're doing, what you're offering and then what people get out of it. That it's energetic theme that stays there and really makes a difference to people.
Mason:
Since we've taken the detour to this place there, this was the second thing that jumped out as I was telling you beforehand of reading that interview and I'll put the peg in the ground everyone, we're going to come back to the herb side of things, but what jumped out was the wording of when you came across that decision, maybe I'll let you expand on the wording of allowing Hale Pule to then to grow. I think it has context and of the why and why maybe other people who were struggling with whether there's a why for their own life or maybe it's a business or maybe it's an offering or them teaching and why it doesn't just seem like they're able just to hit guns blazing and just go entrepreneurial style and create their funnels and just get out of their way and value themselves. What was that intricate process that when you got to the point where you made a conscientious decision to go, okay, I'm going to allow this to go?
Myra Lewin:
For me, I recognised how much I enjoyed doing what I was doing and so there was a little selfishness in there for a while and then I had people around me saying, "You need to do more, you need to do more." And astrologer said to me, "You need to do this a little bit differently." And the thing that I had to really come to peace with was to be able to stay with the why of what I was doing and have that be the priority, because if I let the priority be how are my funnels doing or how all of that, then we're off-base, then it doesn't work. It brings an emptiness to life that I already discovered earlier before I was doing this in previous career, so being in that corporate world. And for a long time I actually avoided formalising the company, but then it became too difficult to do business as an individual. It doesn't work that way.
And so, there's a level of acceptance that had to come, okay, I'm going to play this game and I'm going to do my very best to keep the other. And that to keep that why at the forefront and that the real purpose is to live better, to share Ayurveda and yoga and to live better as a result of that and to have the human experience of interacting with each other and having the human experience of being with each other even if we're being on a video or audio kind of situation, that there's a presence. If I let myself do that, then I have a different experience. And so, that allowing was, there was that selfishness and there was a little fear, definitely a little fear. And I'd been involved in big businesses and I'd been in situations where I was making big decisions that involved a lot of people and a lot of money.
But what I recognised and what scared me and intrigued me was that I was going to have the opportunity perhaps to touch people and to show people how to touch themselves. And that seemed like what I needed to do. There wasn't a question. Once that was clear to me, that was clear. And so, and then everything else that, oh gosh, somebody asked me the other day how often I made a mistake and I said, "A lot." She said, "Often." And that's just part of it, that's part of life. So how we start out or look at going into, well let's just say into a vocation you could call it. I'm going to go out into the world and do this regardless of the level of it. Then why am I doing it and what can I really offer that feels fulfilling? And then it evolves, right?
Mason:
Likewise, I mean, I've got all the modelling there. I know how to run a business. I knew it's 12-year-old, I think I'm up to a 13-year-old business soon. And it's only recently I've been willing to actually implement some of more of the real world business models and principles, because I've been so up in the why and maybe not yet consolidated in how to implement it. But I've had to draw on the philosophy of Taoism to contextualise what things need to be in place in order to ground the vision into a reality. Have you found yourself at times, because it's as above so below, whether it's yoga and Ayurveda, have you found yourself using any of that philosophy to help you gain that flow within your offerings?
Myra Lewin:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I think especially with the online offerings, with the in-person events that we were doing, which is what was 80% of what we were doing until a few years ago. And then we had just started some online activity and then things changed. So that was a real awakening for me to see how do we keep the connection and how do we keep the essence of what we're doing while doing it online? So I guess, yeah, I have to think about that for a minute and just maybe I shouldn't think about it.
Mason:
Well, sometimes I know I'm an over-thinker, so I analyse everything I'm doing and justify as I go along. And so, it's almost nice for me to be in the presence of like, well, I know I'm landing it, and I actually have trust in myself. I'm joking.
Myra Lewin:
I had some moments a couple of years ago where I actually, I went to some friends, I was sitting with some friends and I said, "I have an online business. I never wanted an online business. What am I doing?" And I really felt like, and I was a little unhappy, because I was tired of being just in front of the computer and not being with people. And this is kind of mid-pandemic and that. And it was a good opportunity just to keep really turning back to what is the nature of things? How can I be grateful for what I do have and then expand on what's there for me. And there really was, and it did, it started to change again after that.
Mason:
One thing I've been engaged with your business, I think it was like that three years ago when you were on the podcast with Tahnee and we were doing a little bit of crossed up when you're in New Zealand and likewise now talking about Tahnee and I talking to the community and it was just through email, talking with your team, something that's inherent is there's a guiding principle. So some people might call it an integrity, but what's the integrity based on? You can't just make integrity up. It has to lean back on something, whether we want to call it lineage or ontological laws that we're in touch with and we're working towards. Or maybe it is just a really deep-rooted why of the company. But I think I often, that's where my mind goes when I heard you, when I read you saying, "Now I'm going to allow it to go."
There must have been some kind of got it, landed it, I know how to stay in alignment with this history that I'm tuned into in this future, which I'm connected to and make sure that I can implement that in a way.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, there was. I had gone through a period of really being involved in my practises in a deeper way. They've always been there. And it was a time where the lineage that I had been with, that I guess it really became more obvious to me that the lineage was so important. And also, I think I developed a deeper connection with Dhanvantari and the bringer of Ayurveda you might say in that. So there was that, but there was something else that happened for me at that point, which was just that I could feel and see the connection between that lineage and me as part of it and me being in this lifetime. And it honestly, I don't say that I've talked about it actually that much or even in this way previously, but that was really it.
And then it was as if the doors flung open at the same time there was a closing, because the closing was more me honestly being attached to windsurfing every day in between teaching and things like that. And it's not that those things aren't there, but my priorities shifted, because I was allowing myself also to experience the deep joy in it. And it doesn't mean I didn't get hung up on trying to make bank transfers as I was doing today. All those things that have to take place and now I get help when I need to with those things. And we do the do, because we're here in this lifetime.
Mason:
I really appreciate you dipping in and sharing it. It's literally my number one interest at the moment as I get to these different intersections. And so, because you said aha, that creation of aha moments for your students, that's the other thing that jumped out at me I'm just remembering. And I think it's one thing to create aha moments. I think lots of people who are just doing what I call say a two-minute noodle yoga or two minute noodle shamanism can create cathartic aha moments. But it was the word, the sentences you had around what you said showed that there was an aha and it was connected to something. And when I can sense the muse of someone else's offerings or business or something, it gets me really lit up. And I think that's where many people listening, that's the quality whether it's heart perception or whether it's just having perception or whether it's connection, it's that practise. And I'm always really curious of the conditions that led to that occurring. So yeah, I'm so grateful you're sharing it.
Myra Lewin:
Actually at that time I was living on Maui and I had a time where I walked down the hall, I was walking down the hallway in my house and it actually been added onto, it had a very narrow hallway, old house and I stopped and there was a moment where everything changed and it was just that, and that was actually when I really started shifting things. And I had a farm. And it was a little bit gradual through that timeframe, because I really liked the farm and I really liked the windsurfing too, but it didn't take long. And then, things started evolving from there and I did a lot of things that I'd never done before and I was really uncomfortable with. And people based on my business career previously would've said, "Oh, this should be nothing for you." But they were things, because it was just me doing it to start out. And I'll say it was me in divine presence definitely being led, because I think I could have just chickened out and stayed growing figs, which was also a lot of fun.
Mason:
Been surfing and growing figs and being in Tropicana land where you have access to literally the best tropical superfruits and superfoods ever. And you're near cacao farms and all that kind of stuff. I mean, you said being led, and I think the disconnect for many people is just how much and being led is always a part of it, but then that part of it that is you leading as well of something that's so big and so sacred and that's where the practise comes. And I know I've watched so many people create purpose statements and mission statements and why statements and then just miss the cultivation and the practise that you need to have around maintaining your connection as you are led and you're leading the worldly embodiment of this thing that you're connected to. It's wild experience. I can imagine for you it was.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, definitely is. Still is. Yeah. And it just keeps changing and it's okay, and maybe it's just some time around the planet, but just accepting, accepting. And certainly a few years ago, Yeah, that was an interesting time not having my home in New Zealand and not being able to go back there. I went through quite a, I'm not a person who likes being told what to do or what not to do, and yet somebody's telling me, "Oh, you can't go home." Okay.
Mason:
Jacinda.
Myra Lewin:
But it took me on a journey of really learning to come to what does it mean to accept something? And what does it mean inside of me? That it was one thing where I could sort of say the right thing and not act too angry about it anymore and just start trying getting on with life. And right then I was just, what do I need to do to keep this business going? And then it turned into where were just so many people and so I got to interact with so many people all over the world. So I was being given a great opportunity to expand myself at the same time that I needed to be going inside and accepting this is what is now, and no, you don't know what's coming next and it's okay. Yeah. And I thought I was pretty good at that, but this one definitely tested me. But it's our practises that really take us step by step and you put one foot in front of the other and then you see.
Mason:
Yeah, and that's something, again, I'm just pulling off, I'm cheating off the interview that you gave, which is great for me, because I'm normally so ill-prepared for this... But you mentioned so many times the coming back to the simple pieces of the practise, and then I guess this is where I'd like to know from your perspective, if you are not approaching say herbalism, and I imagine it's the exact same with Ayurveda and the approach to food and herbalism, if you're not focusing on symptoms, what are we focusing on? And that seems to be the entry there that gives you the right to access that state where you are doing whatever it is that you're doing when you're not focusing on symptoms comes from those basics, those basic practises and small steps.
Myra Lewin:
Well, what we're focusing on really is how do things function? And what do we need to do to, if we say, okay, we've been given this body, we have a body, we have this mind, we are our eternal self, we'll say, well come with that it being an expression of nature, then it knows how to do what it knows how to do. And so we start from that point of it knows what to do, and then we look at, well, okay, but what's it been exposed to? What is it being exposed to? What are all those factors that are likely to interfere or support the natural function? So we really operate everything from there. And so then, it's a matter of let's take away the things that are interfering and then let's provide some things that are going to support it.
So when we think about giving herbs, we think about these herbs are digested like food, and they are there to support, they're there to support the natural function. And yes, sometimes it's you give some for relief or something like that too. But the primary approach though is just that.
Mason:
I like that a lot. Yeah, I like that a lot, because I mean, it's the same whether it's rasayanas or when you go into the depths or tonic herbalism or adaptogens, you can get lost in the world. I mean, you come back to it just be like, well, you just take it to support you getting back to your natural function. And then I think, if I know I've been there where I've found it hard to move past that, so I've become obsessed with optimising natural function and just sitting in that realm and being like, yeah, I'm not interested in symptoms, just in... You can get to, you mentioned our more eternal selves, I'd love to talk about that a little bit more. You get, for me, I got stuck in the eternal body at the beginning of tonic herbalism rather than going, sweet, I've got the herbs going, I'm going to function well enough. Then where does this next layer take us?
And when you talked about just that part of us that's a little bit more eternal, that's something I always want to tune in on, because nothing is made people write to me more from this podcast when I haven't. It's amazing how many times I've been in podcasts and I talk about that eternal self when I'm talking about Shen or the Hun in Taoism that travels the universe and goes and explores so on and so forth. Other people are like, "Yeah, cool. So de-stressing, Ashwagandha?" And I'm like, "Did you not hear what I was just alluding to?" so I don't want to bypass it either in terms of, because mentally when you can start tuning into an aspect that maybe wasn't created and isn't going to be destroyed, so on and so forth, and hearing your approach and your teachings and how herbs even, we've already seen how herbs fit in keeping the natural function moving so that we can, and then I might just hand over and I'd love for you to just help everyone explore what did you mean by that?
Myra Lewin:
Oh, okay. Yeah. But I would have to say too, that it's not that we don't look at the symptoms, it's just they're not the primary thing. So because the symptom is in this case, your body or your mind, your actions, telling us what the extent of that imbalance is. So we take them into reference, let's put it that way. Oftentimes, people will bring their laboratory reports. And so, most of that I actually can read, because in a previous life previously in my life, I was involved in that business. And sometimes it gives comfort to people to just say, "Oh, yes, yes, I hear you. And I understand, of course." But we really need to recognise that we've been trained to be so linear in our approach to ourselves. The body's a mechanical thing, I just need to give it some food every now and then, and whatever. And our thinking is quite linear and we're not linear.
And so, we need to allow ourselves to have that movement of our thinking and recognising that it all works together. It just all works together. And we can say that and say that. And that was one of the things too, that was early in my acquaintance with Ayurveda. I was a very linear person and all hard science training. And when I came that, to Ayurveda, I had to really change things and it didn't happen overnight. So when I speak about the eternal, one of the things I like to do is to ask people, okay, well what are some examples of things where maybe you've had something happen in life that you should have been dead, but you're not? There's that well, whatever you want to call it, a force in the universe, there is that divine presence, if you will, that's here. And that's where when we talk about prana or life force, the word prana in Sanskrit it's also the word for breath, that is the source of my life force.
If I really want to get back to myself and get back to that part of me or that expression that I am, then I need to come back to my breath. So that's a really simple way to do it. So when we talk about using herbs to do that, the herbs, they're digested like food. And when I'm actually digesting food, it becomes part of my physical body, but it also becomes part of my experience, because there's a biochemistry there that is affecting the function of my mind and all that.
But we all have such, there's a lot of energy around us that is quite atheistic. Even the religions, the organised religions and that, they're tending to be very one-dimensional. And we're multi-dimensional. So, those are the things I think that really affect our thinking that say, "Oh." A couple of years ago I had spent some time in Portugal and then in Mexico, and I'd been in Australia prior to that, and New Zealand prior to that. And one of the really big differences that I noticed was that the sidewalks, I was in Madeira, which is an island actually that's part of Portugal. And Mexico, was that the sidewalks were all curvy, they were all wiggly. And the sidewalks in Australia are pretty straight as well as United States and many other countries of that nature. So I thought that was really representative of some of that old connection still back to the essence of life and how we're not just these mechanical beings.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, you talked about the connection to nature, and I remember that was one of my first things that I was focusing on a friend who was a permaculturist, and that was the first thing she ever said to me when I started going, I'm visiting her permaculture farm, was like, "Notice how I don't just have a straight line straight through the orchard." And she's like, "When you go back to Sydney, look at how you walk." And it blew me away. Of course, our neural network is going to take with whatever's around us, and then it comes down to, well, what are those curved lines then? What is that about? What would be, and from your perspective, whether it's in our practise or the environments we put ourselves in, what happens when we start not just going linear?
Myra Lewin:
When we don't go linear? I think our whole view of life expands. We start to see ourselves that the essence of who we are in a much, much bigger way. So our thinking is going to be so limited. And so, and that's where I think making mistakes and that I mentioned earlier, it's just such a great thing as long as I'm willing to let go of some of that ego enough to be able to see, okay, what is it that I can learn from this? And that's what makes those wiggles, not the only thing, but it's really a big part of it. And if I realise and I really realise it inside, and I'm touching my chest and my heart, if I let myself realise that and can just a little bit even inch beyond that ego of trying to achieve and look good and all those things that then that's when things expand. And none of that's a straight line. Yeah, okay. And that's really what makes it actually, it makes it interesting.
And it's a lot of times you get to laugh a lot about the things that you did previously and you say, "Oh my gosh, I did that." And it's okay. And then you find out that laughing at ourselves is what opens things up. And then we can see more and we see more of ourselves, we see more of the essence of who we are.
Mason:
When you are talking, I imagine you have quite advanced students, for lack of a better word. Is that something consistent that comes up that to go through the metamorphosis, is that whether it's laughing at yourself or however we want to put it?
Myra Lewin:
It is and it does, yes. Actually, one of the things that we do in company is we have something we call Jedi sessions, and we have Jedi sessions where sometimes it's mostly we're doing energy work, but around things like we've been working lately about what is the difference in our ego self and our higher self, and when do we need either or both? And so, those are some really fun things that it's really fun for me and it's definitely, I think they enjoy it because it helps us put perspective in what we're doing.
Mason:
Made me think about was obviously tuning into higher self or when it's appropriate to utilise a little ego. It means that you might, sometimes, I remember myself getting off on the fact that remembering everything is in straight lines and going, I'm going to make it as curvy as possible and sometimes derailing and going, ah, maybe I could just go a little bit forward, even if it's wiggly.
Myra Lewin:
And go with the flow as opposed to trying to make it happen.
Mason:
Yeah, yeah. Be curvier, be wigglier.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah.
Mason:
Well, and I really hear you in regards to when I talk about the non-symptom-based approach to herbalism, of course, maybe I get excited about it, because we have such an excessive system that likes obsessing over symptomology, and I get excited when there's someone going through the cultivation or terminology of that, which is maybe the harmonising aspect of it.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, just thinking about that again, is that even when I hear a little bit about people talking about longevity and how they want to live longer, but they're not necessarily talking about how much better they're going to live, but that it's always that outside in approach and I'm going to make it happen. And I really, what you and I are talking about, I think is that we're talking about inside out, that it's all just inside out. And so, that our change is really our whole attitude about ageing and longevity and things of that nature, and particularly when it comes to how am I going to interact with herbs in that process.
Mason:
What's the anchor from Ayurveda? I know I talk a lot about the organs around how to, and I don't know what's the exact same in Ayurveda, but that's always my starting point. I wonder what's your starting point when you're facilitating people going from the outside into the inside out, where your teachings take you with herbs?
Myra Lewin:
Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, we start with, actually, we start with the elements, the five elements in the doshas that describe the elements. So I have to keep bringing them back to the elements in that and then talk about the elements in them, the elements around them, their elements in their food or in their tastes. So that's really the main thing and how those elements have qualities. And so, that's the way we talk about it. And it takes many times for most people, some people get it very quickly. I didn't. It took me hearing it many, many times until it finally started to sink in.
Mason:
I mean, because it's funny with the elements and just in case anyone wants us to dive into them, I went back on what you guys, you and Tahnee talked about and on the last podcast and you went into the elements and the doshas, so it's all there. It's pretty laid out. I made sure I did my homework there so we could just reference and we can get on with some other fun, nor with some going nice and deep. But is it the mind, is it the animism that people can't grasp? How do you facilitate that? Because it's like the elements are, well, and when I say the organs, I mean, the Liver Wood, likewise, it's in a different system, but that's the fascinating part. What is the additional skill? Because I know it's not rote. I know it's not just rote learning that you are talking about here, it's perception, and that's what I'm fascinated about.
Myra Lewin:
I think it's the perception, we just keep connecting it back to their experience. Excuse me. We just keep connecting it back to their experience. So for example, if somebody changes their food and that, okay, so what's your experience now? And then relating that back to the elements and that. And so, it's that kind of discussion. And also, I just find also that it's about people learning how to relate to themselves based on those qualities and how things function and what kind of response am I getting. If I have a loose bowel, it didn't just happen because my body failed me, and it's not just the food. It could be that I was upset about something. It could be, there's a whole number of things. So there's that we start to look at life into sum total that I've always got to look at what's my thinking been like? Yeah. Am I angry at anybody? Myself included, any of that. Everything has an effect. Everything affects everything else. And then it takes all that mysteriousness out of it.
But it's also, I think one of the things that I hear that makes the difference for people is they'll go, "Oh, okay, that makes sense." And so, I look for ways to find things that make sense to people, because that's not their thinking. And it comes and just, it's a knowing.
Mason:
Well, when you look at the work that we're doing and the thousands of other people are doing, and then the millions and millions of people in the same lineages have done over time, it's this mass integration process. And we're probably at the biggest separation now, and it's the interesting chop wood, carry water when we're like, what's your experience taking it back to something that's so infinitely connected? Nothing makes you feel more sovereign and connected to something when your experience has validity and it's not just what the mass media or medicine says you should be experiencing.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, yeah. And I also look at what we do, whether it's with Taoism or whether it's with Ayurveda, these are things that bring us home to ourselves and empower us to be the human beings we're meant to be. I guess as we've been talking here, and I just realise that that's really what it's about, all the details. Yeah, there's a number of different details, a number of ways to get there. We just need to be willing to do it and jump in and then we find something much, much richer than we ever imagined.
Mason:
In terms of having a business and a business that has all the making bank transfers and having to have switch codes for that and all that that shit, it's like you've got the law stuff and then you've got HR stuff and all the fun and all the goody goody gumdrops that come with business, which you need a powerful why cultivated primarily if you're going to be like, "Fine." I shared a meme recently that was just like, "I don't do this because it's easy. I do it because I thought it was going to be easy." And I just remind myself of that. If you knew what this was going to be like, you wouldn't have done it and you wouldn't have actually got the juice. But the juice is what I find interesting in terms of when you facilitate an event or you've got online offerings, you've got offerings that are maybe automated, so on and so forth.
They're always, I like having a north star, and whether that north star in business sense is a KPI or an OKR. For me, it's like having something that's measurable that therefore can be scalable, that's landed in that juice and that exactly the juice, I don't think I need to talk about it anymore. But how have you found that process of communicating that juice and having people focus on such a structured thing you're doing, it's so real, yet you do not deviate around people having that experience of the perception and coming home to themselves. Do you measure it in any way? Or is there something close to it that you measure?
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, we do, I guess. We really look at the experience of people, and we do. We have qualitative, a little bit of quantitative information and actually have just started developing more of that to be able to know. We get all these great ravings about one of our programmes in particular, and that people just have these profound experiences and that, but we really hadn't start.. Been paying attention to. But what about those few over there that are lagging and having a difficulty? And so, now we've been able to put our attention. What can we do to support them a little bit more and get them going with things? And there's variety of reasons, but a lot of times it's distraction, but also a lot of times it's scared. And so, for us just to recognise that, then we look for what are tender ways that we can approach them and just see, you thought this was a good idea, so perhaps you need to come back to that part of yourself that thought that, and let's see what goes from there. And actually, that seems to be working pretty well.
Mason:
Oh, that's cool.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, because when people come to things like this, it is so different for them. And it's one thing you say, we go out and say, "Oh, okay, do you have all these kinds of symptoms? Well, okay, well, we have a natural solution," but that sometimes people really don't have any idea what that means. And then when we start talking about, well, you got to make some changes and it's different. It's a little scary, but it's all so worth it.
Mason:
I guess that's part of the fear in starting as well. And from the very beginning, you were not going to be able to tell that in this. What was the offering that you were saying, just in case, I'm sure people would be like, what's that offering that gets rave results? Just because they-
Myra Lewin:
Oh, yeah. It's called agni therapy. It's to learn about your digestive capacity for food and life.
Mason:
I do know that one. And so, in the very beginning you're like, yeah, great, here's the offering and I don't want to get in the way, but how are you going to know that there are an outlier or you're not going to be able to get that sense and that maybe you're going to have to expand the offering? And I don't know, that's what really excites me is that organism-based approach. You're going to have to evolve, but you're going to have to stay sensorily, you're going to have to stay connected and engaged and go like, ooh, maybe there's another offering. Maybe there's another way. Maybe it'll adjust, so on and so forth, which is just so non-linear. That's the non-linear thing.
Myra Lewin:
Yep. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. And really be staying with something, allowing it to evolve. And you think you've got it to a certain point and it's going well, but then you realise, oh, and then there's something more. There's some things that we've learned in the past week and say, oh, okay, well, then we could do that better. We could do that more thoroughly and have it be better. And when our motive is to empower people to be able to live better, if you putting it very simply, then it's very clear, are you going to do it or not do it, right?
Mason:
Because we're on the home stretch and what I'm sensing is it was nice. I remember when I first, I hadn't heard of Hale Pule other than just around. And it's interesting when you come across an organisation, even though you can't really, I wouldn't be expected to know anything about it, you get a sense. And it was almost like not that I had anything, any reason for this, but it's almost, it's intimidating in a nice way when you come across such integrity in an organisation, because there's almost an energetic membrane around what you're doing. And I know people sometimes have that experience. I have people come who want to get into the herb market, and they say the same to me, and they approach me, and they're just like, "I don't even know where to start, and you've got this amazing thing." And I'm like, "Oh, look at the shit show on the inside. Don't worry. I'll burst that bubble quickly."
And I know a few people who have done your courses, and I know there's a lot of people in SuperFeast listening to the podcast who are into doing serious work. So I want to make sure that everyone really continues, not that you need an endorsement, but I really want to know what that roadmap is through Hale Pule, because I really think it's one of those, you've got one of those communities I want let everyone know, yeah, serious work is going on here. And there's often sometimes people listening who maybe they do have the corporate job and someone's sending them this podcast now, and it's a beginning place, but a lot of people who have been pretty deep in the work, and maybe no matter what they came across, I know I've been here, I wasn't actually willing to really do the real grounding, rubber hitting the road work.
But for those people, especially listening where they're like, "I'm kind of tired of floating now, I've got all the insights and the distinctions, and I'm ready to, for lack of a better word, go balls to the wall and really ground it in." Can you just help give some context to the map of working with you all?
Myra Lewin:
Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, we have a number of different steps for people at the end of that. We have a Sangha, we call it, we have a community that's on a private network called Mighty Networks, and there we have a discussion going on that sort of starts this acquaintance with looking at life from the inside out and recognising and starting to hear about oh, that person, those people have got that problem going on too, and wow, they resolved it. And we have communities in our programmes, and there's really a progression, because first we have to learn about our agni and our why, why we're having a lot of those problems. And a lot of people clear up things really quickly with that. And so, you learn about all kinds of things in life. And so, it's not just, oh, I'm just going to learn how to clear up this disease or this problem I'm having.
It's more I'm going to learn about how to live in a different way. And then we have trainings and people who are interested in going deeper. And we have a couple of levels of those trainings so that you can learn to be an advisor. So particularly people like yoga teachers or other alternative health people, that they can start to bring in some of those principles and some of those offerings. And then we have a counsellor training programme too, where people can actually learn how to counsel people to reverse the disease process and to go into prevention and that longterm. And we do developmental work with them ongoing as well. So it's a progression of really going as far as you want. But I think the thing that's really important is that we emphasise that you don't have to do it perfectly, but you need to be living it. And when you are, then it's an expression, that's what it is. And so, that's how can work with Hale Pule. So we have really quite intimate communities within each of those steps, and we know we love doing what we're doing.
Mason:
You can tell. And that's what I think, because a lot of why people listen to this is because we've got a core, when I left university and I was having my light bulb moments around SuperFeast, I was just like, I can't handle the crossing fingers that degenerative disease doesn't just strike my family down. And I think the potency, and I don't know, bravery seems like a silly word to use, but I can only see it as brave in what you're talking about, especially offering counselling that's willing to actually acknowledge what a real deep counselling is, that it's in a decentralised sense, because everyone, I think is quite fearful of mentioning disease or the potential of preventing disease through something like counselling, even though that's, of course what you're doing, because it's only the institutions that are allowed to deal with disease.
And that's probably why I feel that resonance and that, I don't know, it's just like a vortex. I really like you guys, and I get the sense, there's a few people listening that are like, yeah, because it's like, "Well, I'm not going to be able to do it unless I go deep into an institution." And it's like, "No," this is just like, yeah.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah. And that's one of the things that I was just talking about it the other day, that there's places where you can go and learn the academics of it. And the reason I started the programmes that we have is because then the people were coming to me and saying, "I don't know how to do this." And when we talk about getting this to more human beings, to more of the population, then it's really about what can I do in my home? How can I learn how to live better? And how do I become empowered to be a sovereign individual, to be able to be in life in that way? And I think that's something that it became very obvious that we needed to show people how to apply it for themselves.
Mason:
So cool. It's just cool to simplify the grandeur of what we're actually talking about. Just on a very practical level, or let's just stick with the word cool and keep it surfaced, because we've gone infinite in the prevention of disease and decentralisation and we've come gone pretty deep. I feel like we've earned ourselves just a couple of talking about actual herbs. What is your approach to herbalism? Are you working in the realms of rasayanas or formulas, or is it more on the perception that you could bring into your home in terms of what you can perceive is a movement that you need to make in the body, therefore you use this kind of formula? How do you approach it?
Myra Lewin:
Okay. Well, I approach it, we do, I make formulas and we use the rasayanas, we use (inaudible), a whole grouping of different types of approaches to the herbs, but mostly we use a powdered form and make formulas with those and have people take them in various different ways depending on their condition and that. So sometimes we're having them take it with honey and ghee, and sometimes we're having them just soak it in water and various types of things. We have something we call an anupan or a facilitator or a carrier that helps to bring the herbs in. And so, that's how we usually work with them in terms of how we put them together and or how we decide what's appropriate. That's where that comes into that, looking at the whole picture. And we start with, who am I talking to here and who is this for?
And what are they experiencing and where are they on the stage of things? And then we start from there. But there's some particular things that we work with in terms of, for example, what dosha? Am I going to balance a particular dosha first or am I going to just work on all three? And what's happening with that? And that part is actually fairly specific and most of the time works pretty well. But again, there's a thing in Ayurveda that we have, which is that they'll say, if you ask somebody a question about it, the answer is, it depends, because it always depends on the context. And so, we say we're not one size fits all, and although this person may have liver problems going on and they're experiencing these kinds of things and that I still have to look at the total picture of them, and it might not be the same as what someone would give to me or somebody else.
And then the way we put the herbs together, actually, we look at the qualities of the herbs and we have primary and a secondary, and then just some supporting herbs for mostly to facilitate the digestion of it.
Mason:
It seems to be Ayurvedic formulas. They're good in that way. They always focus on the digestion, which I guess we could call the envoy herbs in Chinese medicine, but it's just the fact that Ayurveda actually, it stops getting elusive and really just actually talks about digestion. Are there any herbs you find, even though it goes so individualistic, are there any herbs or formulas that you just find lots of people in the community are just taking on a regular basis as a part of their lifestyle?
Myra Lewin:
Yes, I do. There are a lot of them, and these days, the most fashionable ones are ashwaganda, brahmi being bacopa or gotu kola and then with the ladies, it's so often shatavari. And these are all great herbs, and sometimes it'll work that way if you're just taking it. But then what we look at that's so significant is the amount that you're taking, the dosage, and then what else are you doing? What is it being combined with? And so, those kinds of things I think are pretty significant. But sometimes they have some nice success with that. But again, I always hope for more that we start to look at how did I end up here? And what do I need to do to not end up here again, so that I feel like I have to take the ashwaganda or the whatever?
Mason:
Yeah. Oh my God. Doesn't everything, that's the nicest part about watching people, because we have ashwaganda based on demand. I didn't really particularly want to, but I had to go to my Chinese partners and be like, "Look, I don't trust anyone that, because I can't make a contact. Can you please go to the border and make the connection?" So on and so forth. We found a good Di Dao ashwaganda and all's good, but it's always nice to be just a reminder that inherently, these are all designed, these herbs are designed not to create any kind of dependence and at some dependence. And at some point you're going to have to get back to the reason if you have to take it no matter what. Yeah. So how amazing is it to be a part of that renaissance of that wisdom getting restored to herbalism into the household?
Myra Lewin:
Into the household. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's actually, that's great fun actually for people to recognise, for example, that the spices that they're using and things like that can make a difference in how they feel and make a difference in their digestion and so forth. I mean, those are great things. But I wanted to say one more thing about taking things. For example, people taking ashwaganda, because they've feeling nervous so they're not sleeping well and that kind of thing. And the thing is that just have to remember that taking things to try to make a condition such that I can just keep going at the same pace, because when our body starts and our mind starts to give us messages and then difficulties, it's trying to tell us something. And when we just take, whether it's an herb or a drug, if we just take stuff to try to run over it and keep going, well, there's going to be consequences later.
So yeah, that's a really important thing, I think, to pay attention to. And sometimes we might go through some difficulties and travel a little more, do something and we want a little support, but then doing that ongoing is really, it's harmful to us longterm.
Mason:
And that was the thing that stopped me hitting go, to be honest, in terms of what, for me allowing SuperFeast to go, was I was at the markets talking people out of buying the herbs and having mothers go, "Listen, you little shit, just give it to me, because I can't, I don't have the time for all your practises." And I was like, "Hmm, okay." Maybe I'm also, all right, fine. I'm forgetting that there is the opportunity for symptoms to be met within the household to an extent, and the herbs can work good. But then I guess the funny thing is it's where I sit a lot and I'm resonating with you in terms of that bridge of going, when are you going too far and abusing the herb pretty much to keep something going which you know isn't sustainable and isn't harmonious. And at some point the herb isn't going to be able to do it for you anymore. Yeah. I love it. It's such a great distinction.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, because then that's when people go, "Oh, okay, well, it works a little bit, but then I'm going to go take a drug," or whatever. And so, just so that people can hear this to see, "Oh, am I doing that to myself?" Because it's all about that programming too, that we have the medical system and the drugs and all that is a necessity. And certainly it could be helpful at times in certain situations, but it just is, it's not the necessity and particularly as it relates to disease.
Mason:
I hear you, and that's why I love your work, because that's an invisible place. And in the egoic, mind-y, hierarchical modern medicine world that we live in, that's an invisible aspect and it takes a particular kind of person to bring the visible to the objective perceivable light that we... It's like back and forth, back and forth. So I love your work. I really appreciate you coming on as well. I've had an absolute ball talking to you and hope to have many more interactions as we go along.
Myra Lewin:
Looking forward to it. Thanks. Yeah, good to be here.
Mason:
And is there anything else sitting in front of mind to share? Or are you feeling happy with everything we've dropped?
Myra Lewin:
Oh, I think so. I could share a little bit that I'm going to come to Australia in November.
Mason:
In November.
Myra Lewin:
In November. Yeah.
Mason:
And I think I'm talking to your team about connecting around that time as well, which would be great. What are you offering when you come?
Myra Lewin:
I'll do some teaching, I believe in Sydney around talking about longevity and graceful ageing, and probably a little bit about women's opportunities with transitions and things like menopause.
Mason:
I don't think we've had anything more requested before. We've started actually talking about it now, but that might be something that which would be really, really great for Tahnee and yourself to jump on a podcast about down the track, because that transition, that menopausal transition especially is, it's probably one of the top requested topics that we've ever had. So in any way that it would be ever helpful for your work as well to share it out there, would it be great to.
Myra Lewin:
That'd be fun. Yeah, yeah, because it's good. I mean, there's such myths around it. Yeah.
Mason:
Oh, it's been amazing for me to listen to episodes that Tahnee's recorded around it, because I was completely in beyond in the dark about what that transition, initiation, whatever anyone wants to call it. It is, it's wildly. It's like, "Ah, yeah, no wonder we haven't, no wonder that modern modernity, no wonder."
Myra Lewin:
Right, sure.
Mason:
So that'll be halepule.com, is that?
Myra Lewin:
halepule.com, yeah.
Mason:
halepule.com. So I imagine the dates will be there, and I imagine everyone will need to get in on that, because it's quite in demand, so I'm imagine it'll be good for people to get onto it.
Myra Lewin:
Yeah, it'll be fun. It'll be fun to be in person again in Australia.
Mason:
Thank you so much. And everyone go jump on all the newsletters and everything of Hale Pule and check out the offerings and go explore. Thank you so much for coming on again. What a blast.
Myra Lewin:
Ooh, it's been great. Lovely talking with you. Yeah.
Mason:
Speak to you again soon.
Myra Lewin:
Okay.
