Alchemystic Fungi with Bryan & Mikaela (EP#190)

Click The Links Below To Listen Now 

 

 

 

Mikaela and Bryan of Alchemystic Fungi join Mason today for an explorative conversation around the multidimensional nature of the mycelial world. 

Connected through their shared passion and reverence for mother nature and her plant queendom, Mason, Mikaela and Bryan dive deep into the unifying and medicinal role fungi play on the planet, placing a spotlight on the plethora of functional applications it can have, especially as a remedy to the industrial impacts of our time. 

Whether it's churning through plastic, alchemising industrial waste, feeding the forests or supplying sustainable swaps for common synthetic materials, throughout this conversation we can begin to glean hope that despite the looming doom of the climate crisis, we have a future; and that future is fungi.

Mikaela and Bryan spend their days on beautiful Bundjalung Country, visioning, researching, fossicking, educating and creating in the realms of fungi.

Profoundly devoted to their craft and quest, this dynamic duo are deeply rooted in nature based ethics, unified by a circular economy where nothing goes to waste and everything is fed back into the death, birth, growth cycle of the earth. 

Alchemystic Fungi have big dreams and I personally cannot wait to see Mikaela and Bryan bring their visionary magic into continuous creative form.

A rich and inspiring listen. 

"Finding your medicine is an integral part of your own spiritual journey. So I say to people, "If you keep finding certain mushrooms and there's something very vibrant about them, that fungi is probably speaking to you because it wants to work with you, it wants to help harmonise your system with nature."

- Mikaela

Bryan, Mikaela & Mason discuss:

• Heart math and the work of Stephen Harrod Buhner. 
• The Alchemysitic Fungi origin story.
• The mushroom market; competition verse connection and infinite unity.
• Mycelium, water filtration and environmental toxins.
• Mycorrhizal associations; the symbiotic relationship between a fungus and a root system.
• Fungi and atmospheric carbon.
• Mycelial based materials as the future of sustainable industry.
  
  

Who is Alchemystic Fungi?

Mikaela and Bryan are a dynamic duo with a shared passion for all things fungi. The potential for fungi is endless. Many afternoons are spent scheming innovative ideas on how to cultivate and incorporate fungi for regeneration and restoration.

Mikaela and Bryan see fungi as an inter-connected matrix enmeshing all of natures organisms. With this in mind, they aspire to learn and educate how to integrate segregated practices into a thriving ecosystem.

Mikaela and Bryan met on a rainy day that promised an abundance of fungi. Their relationship to the earth and each other grew akin to mycelium; every strand branching and cultivating new perspectives. In 2020 they commenced their business Alchemystic Fungi, to honour the mystical alchemy that is mother nature. Mikaela and Bryan have worked hard to curate procedures and methods were NO-single use plastics are used throughout production.

Alchemystic Fungi aspires to create closed loop systems that give back to nature. Over the last few years they have been fine tuning their cultivation skillset and renovating a shed to become their fungi temple.

Resource guide

Guest

Alchemystic Fungi Website

Mentioned in this episode 

Paul Staments

Christopher Hobbs

Stephen Harrod Buhner

Relevant Podcasts

Entering The Imaginal Realms with Stephen Harrod Buhner (E#88)

Psilocybin Journeywork & Fungi Academy with Jasper Degenaars (EP#120)

The Wild World Of Medicinal Mushrooms with Jeff Chilton (EP#37)

Check Out The Transcript Below:

 

Mason:

Hey guys.

Mikaela:

Hey Mason.

Byran:

Thanks for having us.

Mason:

Yeah, pleasure. Pleasure, pleasure. We've just been chin-wagging for half an hour, guys, in case you're just like, this is an awkward start. It's just because I just stopped mid-sentence and was like, "Let's start the podcast."

Mikaela:

Let's get to it.

Mason:

Well, let's get to it. It's yeah, one of those scenarios where so much good stuff is coming through and yeah, might as well capture it. Well I was just going and grabbing a couple of books to have, vibing around. I grabbed Reishi Mushroom by Terry Willard, which is one of the greatest books you'll ever read on Reishi. As a herbalist, the capacity to perceive the invisible magic, and then he's really grounded in the science.

 

Steven Buhner was the books that you were saying, "Do I have any Steven Buhner energy?" And he does the same thing but with earth poetry and just bounces between... He takes you into the science with the principal already that you know, there's no such thing as a straight line. And so you can integrate it and just goes crack into this poetry of the majesty. So I'm happy that you chose a little Buhner magic to come in.

Mikaela:

Yeah, he sees into other realms that are vibrating at a high frequency.

Mason:

Yeah. I was at an event yesterday and we were reflecting upon, and maybe you get this a bit when people say you guys are your business, you are the mushrooms, all these things. It's like, I'm a human. And then I think everyone must have the different experience of this. So I'm curious about yours, but someone even this morning, someone was saying to me and my team just like, "No, but you are the Shen of this business." And I'm like, that's like saying that a mother or a father is the Shen of their child when the child gets to a certain age. It's really an inappropriate thing to do to myself, and more so really inappropriate to do to this business.

 

But what I did have, which is given me the skills that I know if I needed to onboard someone into my role, what they would do is go into this book, the Secret Teachings of Plants, and Buhner takes you through a process of cultivating biophilia, and your capacity to have heart perception and runs you through to an extent the scientific heart math way of approaching it. Of what channels it goes through and how it physically electromagnetically gets held by the heart.

 

And that data, you can see that data staying within the neural cells of the heart, and then stopping and allowing it to go to the head. And if you've done the correct amount of training, you have the right terminology. And if you have the interdimensional training, you have the right capacity to make sense across dimensions of what you're perceiving, which makes you a great steward or custodian of the muse, or source essence of a business. Yeah, so I'm curious what your vibe is there and your relationship to your muse.

Byran:

We've been fully taken over by a mycophilia, and yeah, that was a big beginning of our relationship as well, which has expanded into our business, which is now Alchemistic Fungi. And over the last couple of years we've just really noticed that we're working for these organisms more than they're working for us.

Mikaela:

. And in the Lost Language of Plants, Steven Harrod Buhner, he talks about what we learn and our experiences shape the lens of perspective that we see the world. And over the last five, six years of really diving deep into mycology and the queendom of fungi, have found that they are teaching us a way of life and a way of interacting with nature that is so profound. And then coupled that with our own personal life experiences and previous education, it's getting this multidimensional perspective and lens of how to be, and how to live with life and on this journey.

Byran:

And yeah, really getting to stack the functions by working with nature's recyclers. Fungi are responsible for 90% of all the decomposition on the planet. And so helping to facilitate that decomposition and bring that back into life and grow more plants keeps us really inspired.

Mason:

I really love being around you guys because a lot of the time you've probably heard you're the mushroom people. And what I can sense from you guys is you've got an embodiment, which is nice. Likewise, I can relate to, I have an embodiment of Taoism, but Taoism isn't as important to me personally as it is to SuperFeast. And I can see, I feel you guys are really... I've met people who they have been invaded by mushrooms and I love them, because sometimes that's what you've got to do. But I don't think that's necessarily... There's an only appropriate invasion of the spore where you turn into a human spore.

 

And you guys have a... Oh, I don't know, what was the name of the... Probably up at the Brooklet when I saw you last time. I could really feel the sense that you had of the mushroom essence, and the unique way that the mycelium was able to come forward and be channelled along with you guys. So I'm really curious, I know when I'm in the presence of it and you've got such a unique perception of what's coming through and the idea of mushrooms. So I'm just keen to hear more about it, and how that's channelled in the business.

Byran:

A lot of workshops, so I usually give the example that on average every cubic metre of air covering the whole planet has about 500 spores in it. And so usually after that, one of us will make a reference to the song, every move you make, I'll be watching you. And yeah it's so true, the more you learn about fungi and organisms in general, it just changes your lens on when you move through the world and interact with anything, you're interacting with so many different organisms. You have so much entanglement, which is another great book.

Mason:

That's out there as well.

Mikaela:

Yeah. Oh, where to begin? There's so much depth to that question. They're nature's internet, they're communicating with everything. And I can really feel this collaborative sense that it's cultivating within mycologists, and mycology being the biggest understudy, or mega science that's been understudied in the world. It's the fastest emerging amateur field. So we've got heaps of amateur mycologists, and many that are based in the northern rivers and we know most of them and we're all sharing cultures, sharing knowledge.

 

And of course there's a little bit of an edge of competition that comes in that is just so embedded in us in society. But we all push past that because we realise how difficult it is to actually facilitate the growth of mushrooms, and how many different ways there are to do it. So to be sharing our experiences and our cultures is... Inevitably it's for something that's bigger than ourselves, which is proliferating this great organism, and the knowledge that they have to help our planet.

Byran:

And the ability to work with them for innovation and even different kinds of technology, textiles, building materials. Food and medicine are some of the obvious ones, but their potential is infinite. And as a citizen of science or amateur scientists, the to-do list and excitement of things to uncover, and unpack, and dive into is just endless.

Mikaela:

There's an estimated of two to 10 million species, that's enormous. That range gives a reference to how little we actually know. And of that two to 10 million species, 10% are fruit mushrooms and of that 10%, 10% have been identified.

Mason:

You can tell why it represents a little bit of the subconscious fear, and why the subconscious fear is there of an institution-like science. Because that fact alone tells you that you have no idea how this planet works really. And I was just thinking it's such a unifying field. I was just talking with a couple of mycologists, something I actually got to talk to you guys about, I mean that competition, which I like. Competition, nature is savage.

 

But when you're disconnected to the element of, for me, what the fungi represents is the unification, the fascia. So that even though we create tension and in the body, we can create polar wants through the proper tensegrity. So not excessive tension through competition, and also flabbiness with no competition or advocacy. That's not good, but the fascia represents that fully. So we were talking about mushrooms and going, "It has to be a unification overall message, bringing the different..." You've got mycology, you've got local cultivation going on, you've got the building materials, you've got me working not with a western mushroom system. You've got the western mushroom system grown here in Australia, or the US.

 

You've got me going Di Dao mushrooms there, you've got the organic, there are emerging fractions and then there's the hardcore university mycology. And as long as they're not unified, something's a miss or we've got a next step in order to-

Byran:

I really like that. And I think that's such an important note on why we have only identified 10% of fungi, is because so many of these organisms don't grow singularly. They grow in communities, and interweave with all of the other organisms that are in and around them. And so they can't be isolated and grown in a lab, which is why they can't be researched. And then that goes on to something that really resonated with us is Paul Stamets changing Darwin's survival of the fittest quote, and I'll see if I can get it.

 

He changed it to, "It's not survival of the fittest, it's the extension of generosity of surplus to the biological community, to promote biodiversity." And yeah, so much better than the idea of everything being competition, and survival of the fittest. Because it's not, if it was survival of the fittest, there wouldn't be all of these biological communities because they would all have just waged war on each other and destroyed each other. And we wouldn't have this beautiful diversity on the planet that we do.

Mason:

We were talking about value, I was talking about synergistic accounting a little bit, and how the whole world revolves around, yeah, we care about team and feelings. Or maybe we care about processes, or we care about these things and maybe someone evaluating the value of a business might check them. But in day-to-day operations, it's really finances that gets the heavy amount of value attribution. Which, if you're myopically looking like that, and you don't acknowledge the excess of other things that you do have that are valuable, it makes it impossible to go into that quote and share the excess that you have.

 

Because I know my business isn't a business that has excess capital. We just don't operate that way. It's not our sweet spot. And I think it's the same thing for businesses like ours. So everyone goes towards this, "Oh, let's just commit a 1% of takings or profit to the planet." And it's just like, "That's so boring. There is value already within your localised organisation to share." And then all of a sudden survival and thrival start coming into it. So I just had to explore that.

Mikaela:

There's so much more value and money, it's the energy that you bring to your day-to-day life, and the way that you interact with everything like that. It ripples out and creates change for a better, more healing planet.

Byran:

Yeah, I view the currency of these organisms that we work with as all organisms on the planets, all life that we know of, or that I'm familiar with, as carbon based. And so I view carbon as this currency between these communities. And so for example, we pair our growing mycelium with spirulina, and so fungi are exhaling that C0, that carbon, the spirulina's inhaling that CO2 and exhaling oxygen and making the carbon, even in our growing environment is that currency. And then that brings value to our growing environment. But I think the analogy of value, it can be put into a lot of other areas, and I think about it in the organism context as carbon for sure.

Mikaela:

But everything feeds into each other. Once the fungi have stopped growing, and the mycelium's deemed done, well that could then feed back into the environment and act to suppress weeds, and feed up the trophic levels of microarthropods and other microorganisms which get eaten by birds, and worms and da da da da. And it goes so on and so forth. So it's again, extending the capacity of what these organisms can bring to the table. And that could be a metaphor for part of your life, beginning and end is all very relative, it starts and ends. It continues infinitely.

Byran:

Constantly changing form.

Mason:

I mean you brought up learning from nature before, and our enterprises and organisations and businesses have obviously got a lot to learn about that. But just that system, just having a system and process has a very business-y hard edge to it. But again, I know you've been on permaculture farms, there's a very strict system in order to go with the natural flow of the land and the day, so you don't use excess energy. And it's the same what you're just talking about, just embodying that, well then we're in a closed loop system. So you take that mycelium and go, well, where is this valuable? Because it's valuable somewhere and we've got it.

 

Even that alone, I don't know what you guys do in terms of contribution, but your contribution alone is something that I sense and is worthy. So when I would see there, that would be an intersection going, "I've got all this mycelium," and just say you went, "But I'm going to go and import my impact, and I'm going to give 1% to this carbon catching blah blah." It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, carbon... That's already inside the business. We don't need to import value perceived outside. We can perceive the value that we already have.

 

So it's just... All right, well go back to the why, because you guys have got a product universe emerging as you go along. I think everyone can sense a lot of the why, and if not, if you want to give a simple running it through the gauntlet of why we're doing things, and then it's nice to see what the products are that come about. What's your process of seeing what comes out in the physical?

Byran:

We've got a huge list of product ideas.

Mikaela:

Never ending.

Mason:

Awesome.

Byran:

That always, always gets bigger. And yeah, like we briefly said before, there's so many industries that we believe fungi can be disruptive in, and we really want to keep all of our options open on which industry we're going to choose to direct our energy at.

Mikaela:

We're allowing a bit of flexibility to see what Alchemystic Fungi wants to become.

Mason:

Can you talk more about that? Because that's my favourite thing about your guys' business is that that seems so... I know for a lot of people in a hierarchical business who don't understand teal level of organisation, and the steward leadership of a source idea. It seems like, what the fuck are you talking about? That's such a hippie tripper thing, but even the most systems-minded people who haven't touched the word hippie, when they enter into the teal, they realise... And anyone can look at the Integral Model of Ken Wilber to get what I'm talking about.

 

That's real. That's an objective reality of you are the steward of something there that's a muse. The way that Nick Cave talks about his muse, it's the same as someone who's a leader. So I just want to hear more about that and how you experience that.

Mikaela:

Well we've been setting up this business for the last year and a half and creating the space to be able to facilitate their growth. And we've got all these ideas and we're emergent. We do a lot of workshops and there's an aspect of where is the need? And right now a big one we see is with the floods last year, water filtration. We need better water systems, and what helps purify water but mycelium? So we're coming up with different ways of being able to help purify water, and different types of water systems because they'll all be unique and-

Byran:

Or run off from roads. Lots of different species of fungi can break down petroleum based hydrocarbons, because it's not that far removed from wood. And they can do that and produce healthy fruiting bodies even after that. So all of the culverts and things on the edge of roads, we believe should be full of mycelium so that all the oil coming out of vehicles when it washes off, and potentially goes into rivers, it's getting filtered through bio filters first. They should be low hanging fruit and the community can all get involved in that.

Mikaela:

The fungi alchemize these compounds into medicine and that's what's so amazing about them. They are nature's alchemist at the source and they're so mystical, hence our name, Alchemistic Fungi, just honouring that nature of them. So to have a whole community come together to help purify water systems through the use of fungi that they know is going to turn into medicine, which will then be eaten by other organisms and help ripple out effect.

Mason:

And that's such a lovely... It is a simple process of going, this is what the business is about, and then going exploring what's an appropriate place now to be of service. Can you just give me an example, that's a practical example. Say you'd be working with councils in putting those into place on the sides of the road. What would be the upkeep necessary on a project like that?

Byran:

Well, whenever there's a slope on a culvert, everyone's probably familiar with those coco coir bundles to help to slow down the water and prevent erosion.

Mason:

Oh yeah, okay. I didn't know what you were talking about there, but yeah. Now I do once you explained the, stop the erosion thing. I didn't know the other word.

Byran:

So we can very easily grow mycelium in hessian sacks, or we could easily just inoculate those coco coir bundles. And then not only are they slowing erosion, but they could also be filtering the runoff of oil and residue on the roads. So there's a lot of-

Mikaela:

Essentially, to answer your question, there isn't really much maintenance necessary, because the contact that has with the earth, that will be enough moisture to grow the fungus. And then it rains enough here for them to do their thing. And ultimately we don't need them to fruit, you just need them to be growing and filtering them off.

Byran:

There's also quite a few different species that will enjoy consuming things like E. coli runoff off from farms, or transpiration fields for septic systems. Rather than that overflowing when we get heavy rains and washing into the water systems, that can easily be filtered with different species of fungi as well.

Mason:

I never have doom and gloom, world economic forum bullshit leave my subconscious in my mind more than when I talk to mushroom people.

Byran:

Totally.

Mason:

You guys are such a gift. I know we haven't hung out too many times, but yeah, I've been really looking forward to this because it's just like-

Byran:

Likewise.

Mikaela:

It's been a long time coming.

Mason:

Yeah, it's been a real long time coming. I think it was just when you were over there with Danny at Conscious, was the first time we became Instagram friends, or whatever it was. It's been a while.

Byran:

That's where we met.

Mikaela:

Yeah.

Mason:

Oh was it?

Mikaela:

Yeah, we met there.

Mason:

That's beautiful.

Mikaela:

Yeah. I'd like to touch on one more since we're on the topic. Glyphosate. Glyphosate being a water soluble compound and nature only produces poisons that are oil soluble, because you don't want to poison the water. So now we have created glyphosate, which is forever evaporating and raining back down. 75% of the rainfall in the states have glyphosate in it. And-

Mason:

They shut down our national parks access quite regularly to do sprays, and that's owned by Bayer now I think, if that's right?

Mikaela:

This is where fungi come in, we are killing a plethora of microorganisms we don't even know exist. And that ecological impact of that is massive. And that's where fungi can come in and first help break those compounds down, and then help replenish the biodiversity that we're losing.

Mason:

So, yeah, hell yeah to that. All of a sudden the people going, "Well, look, there's nothing we can do. We don't have any options." All of a sudden the mushrooms come from the dark being the light going, "Duh, I'm over here." But talking about carbon, talking about these things, in terms of, I can really appreciate the divide of people going, "What we need to do is become carbon neutral right now, and the only way of measuring that is to plant trees in these weird mass... You've been ticked and approved by this other organisation."

 

I go between going wanting to vomit about that, and how boring, and myopic and just appreciating... There's people trying to corrupt that, of course. But okay, it's something, let's keep on going. You talk about carbon, is there any one of these operations where if people want to get carbon neutral, that maybe we put our attention to the fungi rather than the tree planting?

Byran:

So yeah, I feel like most people are probably familiar with mycorrhizal, that's gotten really popular over the last few years. And Fantastic Fungi, if anyone hasn't watched that, you should, it's done an awesome job of really introducing people to the foundation of some of the things that fungi can do.

Mason:

Can you explain it, just quickly?

Byran:

Mycorrhizal?

Mason:

Yeah.

Byran:

So mycorrhizal is basically where fungi makes a root association with trees. And so-

Mikaela:

A symbiotic relationship.

Byran:

A symbiotic relationship back to the... It's not survival of the fittest because... So 90% of all plants on the planet form Mycorrhizal associations, and the remaining 10% likely have associations with fungi, but it's more obscure. And science hasn't dialled in exactly how to identify that yet. But definitely 90%. And essentially when plants do photosynthesis, they're creating sugars from the carbon that they absorb, and then a healthy plant will release up to 40% of its sugars in the form of exudates, through its roots, and give that to its fungal companion, or companions through the root zone.

 

And so that's where the idea of working with fungi, as well as plants, to help sequester carbon has a lot of potential. I can't remember exactly what it is, but our soils hold most of our carbon, more than there is in the atmosphere.

Mikaela:

And most of that carbon is fungi.

Byran:

Is stored in fungal tissue. It's interesting on a global scale though. I think humans produce in and around seven gigatons of carbon a year that goes into the atmosphere. Whereas fungi believe they produce around 85 gigatons of carbon a year, because fungi inhale oxygen and respire CO2 the same way that we do. So in terms of contributing to CO2, fungi actually produce a lot more than we do. But carbon is, I view it as a currency and it's plant food. So in order for that currency to constantly get exchanged, we need this exchange or plants lose, plants aren't getting paid by that CO2 to continue to grow. So it's a huge topic.

Mikaela:

Yeah, it goes into... The way that the world's seeing carbon right now is quite narrow-minded and reductionistic. And one of my favourite things to talk about in our workshops is how fungi don't fit in boxes. And I will continuously remind people of that as we're going through the categories. And then I'll bring up this mushroom like, "Oh, but this mushroom actually fits way over here. It is a parasite, but it's also a mycorrhizal," and it's an endophyte. So if you take that philosophy and apply it to everything, nothing is finite. It's infinite.

Mason:

Yeah, there's so much there in terms of, oh, it's really counterintuitive to put energy into something that's going to put more carbon in. But oh my God, hang on a second, but it is necessary in that mycorrhizal relationship in order for the trees to have the capacity to actually do what they're meant to be doing.

Byran:

Totally. And then it's also, fungi are like-

Mason:

Oh no, symbiosis.

Byran:

Fungi are lower down in terms of the soil food worth trophic level. And so fungi are then going to get consumed by fungal feeding nematodes-

Mikaela:

Depending on where they are.

Byran:

Different earth worms and arthropods, and it's their excrement from eating the fungi that becomes the stable soil carbon. And so in the form of humic substances, and things like that. So it has to go through that fungal or bacterial process in order to get eaten by the next trophic level, to then be sequestered.

Mikaela:

So essentially we need to be-

Mason:

Well, that's the key word there. If you measure it by being sequestered, then oh, that's a worthy north star that's going to make sure you follow the process of symbiosis, immunity and effectiveness, right?

Byran:

Totally.

Mason:

Sorry.

Mikaela:

And following regenerative principles. So how can we promote biodiversity rather than just taking a box and planting heaps of trees, and spraying heaps of chemicals on them, but really you're just killing the soil. How about we plant less trees and we feed the biology?

Mason:

It's a really funny thing because we need to broaden the end outcome, rather than being non-unified carbon measurement. It needs to get broadened that the carbon conversation finds a sweet spot, and doesn't dictate current morality. And when you go to even that sequestering, but also, what's a word that we could use to describe the unique environment? Whether we're in the desert or a tropical environment, what's a word? Whether it's in harmony, or biodiversity, there's way more specific words. That when we have that carbon sequestered, what does that then... That's maybe one of the pulse checks of us doing a good job, but what's the ultimate thing that emerges them? I think the world's calling out for that a little bit. And of course the fungi are going to have a role to play in that.

Mikaela:

You'll see and you'll feel a pulse of life. There'll be more birds, more insects, there'll be more abundance and fruits and nuts. And you'll see a wide variety of life.

Byran:

I love the style of farming, Syntropics, and how they just talk about Syntropy. I think that's a great way to explain it. It's just ever increasing in complexity, and it's just an upwards spiral of more life. Life begets more life.

Mikaela:

And we all intuitively know it. When you walk into a really healthy old growth forest, you're like, whoa. And it just takes over your whole energetic field, and what's now called forest bathing, and you feel how much life is existing around you. That's the feeling that you'll get.

Mason:

It's a great north star. The cultivation of life, that's all the Tao is. That's all they said, these herbs were just there to cultivate life, which we measure through Jing, Qi, and Shen. So there's different dimensions, and muscular cultivation can't win out because eventually the Shen's going to have its well-rounded thing to say. And in this instance, the cultivation of life, what does that look like? What does it look like closer to populations? What does it look like within a farming environment? What does it look like in a wild environment? There's going to be different degrees, but nonetheless, the cultivation of aliveness in that spark. Wow, so simple.

Mikaela:

Yeah. Mushrooms are booming right now, medicinal mushrooms especially, as being a great way to heal and harmonise within our system. But we forget that the mushrooms that are in the wild are actually healing the environment around them. So Usnea, a type of lichen, it is the lung of the forest, it is breathing. If you see Usnea, it's a sign that it's purifying the air and it's also good for our lungs. There's this reflection constantly in the way that these organisms are growing in nature, and the way they can help heal us because we are not separate from nature.

Mason:

Have you heard much of, I don't know whether I just was thinking about this, but I was looking at lichen and looking at sponges and thinking, oh my gosh, there's going to be some kind of emergence of medicine that comes from those. But thinking about, I don't know, lichen lounging or something, I think I've called it. Of course there's herbal applications of lichens, which is starting to go back and we're saying, "But it's not traditional."

 

But the forest bathing and just when you get into Stephen Buhner's work, it was something, you could feel like lichen calling to people with those respiratory issues, in order to be around. It was like, yeah, I can't remember if I spoke to someone about the podcast, if I just made this up and had one of the chats with myself in the car or something.

Mikaela:

I'm so glad you mentioned it because I feel that finding your medicine is an integral part of your own spiritual journey. So I say to people, "If you keep finding certain mushrooms and there's something very vibrant about them, that fungi is probably speaking to you because it wants to work with you, it wants to help harmonise your system with nature."

Mason:

Again, very real. It's so real. I've taken it as far as I can go, in terms of capacity to scale, and have large impact, which was the original idea. So that I don't lose connection to lineage, so that the je ne sais quoi, or aliveness that allows people to perceive that alive connection, is there. So that's a finger on the pulse. As long as we are hearing people say that, and they land on the website and they're like, "I don't know why I've never heard of, what is it called? Kahaga? Or Chaga. And I'm like, "Okay, yeah, okay. I know this is confusing, but it's a Chaga." Or people are like, "What's Shishwanjwa?" And then I'm like, "Yeah."

Mikaela:

So cute.

Mason:

But it's maybe not everyone, or maybe it's in varying degrees, but exactly what we're talking about, we've got terminology to help foster that. And that's how we have a finger on the pulse that we're still in alignment. And that should be the skill again. I'm going to go back to Stephen Buhner's book, Secret Teaching of Plants. He takes you through the process as a healer, how to hold that space. And if you have a lexicon of herbal knowledge, that's even western scientific knowledge as well as a connection physically, you've gone through the process of experiencing each of those plants. Taste, smell, touch, let it go to the heart, then let the experience go to your head to explain it. You cultivate a relationship, which all life is relationship.

 

And then when you're talking to someone and you're logically taking in their answers, as well as feeling, and that at some point you can feel. I think his example is, I think swamp cabbage is a thing that comes about, but the lung tentatively, timidly comes forward and says, "It's here. This is the actual issue, and I'm really feeling this and that." And then for him, he felt and he ran it through the logics of the answer. He goes, "This actually makes sense." That's why you need both worlds to be a really great healer, I feel. And he's like, "Now that swamp cabbage is relevant, it's not just invading, or it's not just my thought or wish." He's like, "That's saying, "Bang, me." And taking people through that process in yourself, oh!

Mikaela:

For sure. Oh I've got goosebumps. I love it. Yeah, it's a sixth sense. It's intuitive. We can give a list of this is what this mushroom will do for you. But the truth is that it's going to be different for every individual, based off of their chemistry and what's going on for them on a day-to-day basis. It's going to change all the time.

Mason:

So the mushrooms, obviously people wander into your purview because I imagine people just get that sense. I mean that was the one thing that got people to walk into a SuperFeast store was a Reishi. I just had a Reishi there and that was the Batman light for people. Lots of people who had no idea what it was, but you are so, that people think, they go to me, "You're the mushroom man," I'm like, "My God, wait till you meet these guys who are some of my friends. That's permeating full mushroom medicine." Where are people at in life when they start coming into your world? We need to talk about the multiple ways that they can, through products and education as well.

Byran:

Yeah, we do workshops pretty regularly, a few times a year. And as we continue to develop and finish our space, we hope to offer workshops much more regularly. And yeah, all different aspects. I think people with a permaculture mind definitely start gravitating towards fungi very naturally. That's how I got interested in fungi, was just interested in organic, started as cheffing, interested in food, and then interested in how to farm well, and then interested on how to grow plants well. Which led to the soil, and then what's the largest organism in the soil? Led to fungi and that's how I got here. And I think it's a natural progression of being interested in plants, and then taking care of your body.

Mason:

How do you work with those people, especially with those permaculture interests of backgrounds or growing interests?

Byran:

When we do workshops, probably our biggest focus is just making it seem less intimidating, and really trying to empower people with low tech cultivation methods is what we feel is really a way to start to get people engaged. Growing their own fungi, which we offer a few different grow your own kits, dowels, and things like that, which is just so accessible. So anyone can do their own log inoculations without having to do deep dives into the lab side of things. People can outsource the lab and just start to play and interact with the organisms.

Mikaela:

Yeah, simplify in order for them to create their own relationship with it, but also give an overview of the fact that fungi could be anything. And open up their eyes to keep them open-minded.

Mason:

And is that where most of the time people are coming to you, the channel of energy, in terms of customers are kinda going, "I want to grow a mushroom on small scales at homes, farms?"

Byran:

I'd say so, yeah. People interested in wanting to dive deeper into fungi and that's usually coming from the idea of wanting to grow them, and interact with them, have them in their garden space.

Mikaela:

A bit more and more on the wild foraging side of things, and interacting with how do I wild forage? And often my response is just keep going to the forest, create that relationship with the forest, and I recommend visiting the same forest again and again. Because she opens to you the more you visit and there's this trust, you're building trust. And then you just start to note. The first time we found native shiitake, we just had a sense there was something about it, and I didn't want to pick it because I don't like picking mushrooms unless I have a purpose for it, I'll leave it where it is. And Brian kept pushing it, I was like, "Oh, I don't know." And then he found another one and he brought it over to me, and as he handed it to me, I noticed that there was these hairs on the stem and I was like, "Wow, it looks like shiitake," which I actually hadn't eaten that many of at the time, or worked, or grown.

 

And this light bulb went off and we were like, "Oh my God, it's a native shiitake." Sure enough, went home and found out that there is an Australian native shiitake which most people don't know about. And now we've got this beautiful relationship with that mushroom, and we get intuitive messages. In December we found the mother load of native shiitakes, and on the day, I saw a dowel of that same culture we were cultivating, and it was fruiting in the jar, which I've never seen. We've never seen it fruit in the jar. And I said to Brian, "The mother is fruiting." So we went up that night and sure enough, we found just an entire massive tree covered at just the perfect time.

Mason:

Oh my God. When people are coming to you and asking for foraging, I think people, what you've just explained, it's not all just magic and luck. There's a principle there in terms of the principle of how to go back with consistency, how to develop a relationship.

Mikaela:

It's been a couple years now. We first found that mushroom three years ago?

Byran:

It was probably about three years ago.

Mikaela:

Yeah.

Mason:

Yeah it's a good reminder. Especially we're going into our season here, we're going into that. Not that it's all about that, you can go any time, but it is rewarding.

Mikaela:

For sure, yeah. Definitely.

Mason:

Are you doing any foraging tours with people or are you just teaching?

Mikaela:

We've done the odd one. Our focus right now is just to finish the project that we've initially started, which is nearly there, and creating the systems and eventually we'd love to go foraging with people. And yeah, it's our personal practise at the moment that we're just acquainting ourself with the different fungi around, and experimenting with making medicines with them. Because they don't always fit into what most people know of as the medicinal mushrooms. But yeah, just learning to work with the fungi all around us and educating ourself with a lot of Christopher Hobbs' work.

Mason:

He's the first person who ever informed me of medicinal mushrooms.

Mikaela:

He is my greatest teacher, I adore him.

Mason:

I've had butterflies around meeting two people, Ron Tee Garden and Christopher Hobbs, and I got to go on a meander with him in Oregon at the East West. And I haven't got him on the podcast, I'm still at a, we're not worthy.

Mikaela:

Please do.

Mason:

I think it will happen. He's so beautiful, he always replies and I'm just like, oh, I can't. Not yet kind of one. That was '86, that was the year I was born that he wrote the first edition of Medicinal Mushrooms, that book.

Mikaela:

That's my bible.

Mason:

Mine too.

Mikaela:

Yes.

Mason:

You get the new edition?

Mikaela:

I haven't yet, but I've been eyeing it up. Is it good?

Mason:

Yeah, it's good.

Mikaela:

Of course it's good.

Mason:

Just the way he explains the way everyone's just like beta-glucans. He's like, "Well the symbiosis of the Mycorrhizal connection is one thing, wait until you see the symbiotic relationship that your immune system has with these compounds." And good enough to go into the beta-glucan knowledge, but then, this is why I like the Di Dao, the Taoist application of mushrooms because it's like there's all these invisible things we haven't identified yet, and that's actually bringing regulation to whatever the beta-glucan is.

 

And so they're like, "We just don't care to measure it." And that's what I relate to. I also like and can balance just being interested in the beta-glucans. But oh my god, that was the first thing I ever read, was what the process is of it passing through, it's high molecular weight, and hitting those immune receptors in the gut associated lymph tissue. And then, oh my God, it does what?

Mikaela:

What happened?

Mason:

What a master.

Mikaela:

Oh yeah, he's brilliant. He's brilliant. He's so in the fungal realm and he's got such great morals.

Mason:

Yeah his workshop was one of the most because he was able to go into, this is Cordyceps, and this is what it does. And it was really nice to watch someone, because I, at that point in my life was rejecting any kind of, "Reishi does this," "Cordyceps does this." Just thinking and therefore making it unaccessible to the big part of the bell curve.

(43:43)

He just snapped between the so simple where I'm like, this is almost embarrassing for me how simple this is. And then just went, "And now let's just dive into the mycelium consciousness," and just blows your mind just casually. Okay, great. That's a nice little connection there.

Mikaela:

Oh yeah, yeah. It's so spiritual. Well it is, they are spirit. And the same with this Reishi book, I imagine he talks about the spirit of the mushroom. It is the spirit of immortality, isn't it?

Mason:

That's it. The best link is believed to live deep in the rainforest where it is protected by snakes and tigers. Bang.

Mikaela:

Boom.

Mason:

Boom. Snakes and tigers?

Mikaela:

A great omen.

Mason:

Protecting the medicine? Oh hell yeah, it was just an opening and going to a random spot.

Byran:

Totally.

Mason:

If you're happy, you can say whatever you want, but if you're happy, I wouldn't mind just hearing about that long list of projects. Maybe they're like pieces of wood that aren't cured yet, but you brought up even looking at the podcast room here, and all the foam on the walls.

Byran:

I think there's so much potential for fungi in building materials and textiles, and we've been playing with a whole bunch of different form works, and looking at the potential for growing building materials. And yeah, came into this room and looking at the sound boards, fungi could very easily replace artificial materials used for sound boarding. There's a few companies a lot of people might be familiar with, like polystyrene replacements.

Mason:

How far is that a long now?

Byran:

For us?

Mason:

Yeah.

Byran:

Oh, overseas there's a really large company called Ecovate and they're going for it, in terms of products and things, and the future Gucci bags, Nike. They have contracts with all of those companies in terms of leathers-

Mikaela:

Mushroom leather, yeah.

Byran:

Yeah, they're making MDF board replacements. There's people growing kayaks out of Reishi mycelium. There's a company in California growing surfboards out of mycelium. And all of those concepts really excite us and there's no point in... If something's grown out of waste material, there's no point in shipping it from California to here. There should be companies set up everywhere, using local agricultural waste materials to make everyday products used in everything.

Mikaela:

Or mycelium boxes where you put your cigarettes and the mushrooms start to break them down. I know that there's a lady who's researching that at the moment. I don't know her name, but that's underway. So essentially turning a lot of our waste, alchemizing that back into soil, back into life.

Byran:

Yeah. I guess we mentioned we are growing spirulina, a lot of people might be familiar with spirulina as a food supplement, as a super food. And so we're growing spirulina and we're supplementing its CO2 from the mycelium's respiration. As a permaculture concept, I find that really cool. We're working on growing a type of Lomandra grass, to grow our own substrate to feed to the mushrooms. Looking at people doing large tree plantings, which is where our waste mycelium can hopefully be incorporated into. So yeah, it's really taking a lot of the permaculture approaches of closing the loop, really excites us.

Mikaela:

Mycelium rafts for the waterways.

Byran:

Possibly filter water, absorb heavy metals.

Mikaela:

Liquid cultures that could be face masks for hydration and beauty.

Byran:

And then, yeah, lots of workshops and in and around workshops, like I mentioned before, just really advocating for low tech cultivation. And would love to be supplying the local community with local species and they can purchase grain spawn, and things that they can then play with to make all of these kinds of products that we've mentioned. And grow them out of local species. And we want to really make that available and just show people, it doesn't have to be this unattainable thing, it can be as simple, or as complex as you'd like. But you can do a lot of really cool stuff in the realm of simple as well.

Mason:

It seems like that's been a common theme, of it's simple, it's making it accessible. That's been that bridge to...

Mikaela:

Yeah. And we also, of course, are interested in the food and medicine aspect of it as well, and that will naturally unfold as it wishes.

Mason:

Is that unfolding in any way? I guess, can you follow a thread of how you're applying it?

Mikaela:

We've got one product that is maybe not too far off, mushroom kimchi. Oyster mushroom kimchi. It is so delicious and it's got such a long shelf life. It's extra probiotics and it's more digestible because a lot of these edible gourmet mushrooms, they have all nine essential amino acids, and they're abundant in vitamins and minerals. But the reality is that some people aren't able to digest and make them bio-available in their system. So creating this product just is a win, win, win, win, win across all the boards.

Mason:

That'll go off. It's like a good kimchi, I think you guys have got good taste. You've been around long enough.

Mikaela:

I'm such a foodie.

Mason:

Well that's good. That's the unfortunate thing when people who venture into food products and don't have, say, a refined palette. And they're like, "No, it's good." You're like, "Oh my gosh, the idea's good, but I'm sorry. It's a crap product."

Mikaela:

Yeah we're very grateful we had a team member who is a fermenting wizard.

Mason:

Really?

Mikaela:

Yeah, him and his partner, Cal and Chels, they really dialled in. Yeah, they've got their pallettes, they're just so refined.

Byran: (50:23):

And we just recently found a Ganoderma resinaceum species that we're really excited about, and looking to start to grow some of the more Polypore, Wood Ear, medicinal mushrooms as well. And really inspired to have them be local endemic species too.

Mason:

In terms of the cultivation, could there be something as well for people to be able to get access to just dried, and make their own teas, and get some local slices as well?

Byran:

Totally.

Mikaela:

Really curious to experiment with making mushroom slurries to help with plant growth as well, and plant pests and disease. Yeah, and these are all things that will happen over time, naturally, as we experiment in our garden and ourselves.

Byran:

Few different experiments of growing our own AMF fungi, so that's our bascule mycorrhizal fungi. Fungi that don't form fruiting bodies, but they associate with all kinds of perennial grasses, and things like that as well. So potential applications for people wanting to convert pastures into more regenerative, and more organic to reduce the need for herbicides, and things like that, to manage a lot of those pesky annual weeds. AMFs have been shown to make a lot of difference there, so we're excited about potential in that realm too.

Mikaela:

So essentially there's a lot of aspect of education and implementation to make a big shift.

Mason:

Do you think it's going to come... I guess it'll always be fun working with individuals doing that kind of thing if you have an interest, but the commercial aspect seems to be... You can't stop it. Because-

Byran:

And coming from a place of it, we feel like, not only should it happen, but people are calling for it. It needs to happen as well, from an ecological perspective.

Mason:

I guess I'm excited by that idea as well. Do you see your business getting pulled in that direction more and more? In terms of the fungicides and the slurries, and this stuff that could scale in the farming arena?

Byran:

Inoculants and things like that? I guess we've listed out a few different angles, and whichever one ends up pulling us the most is where we're going to go. But that one really excites me. Another genre of fungi being the endophytes, there's just a plethora of undiscovered organisms in there that may be able to help plants with disease resistance, herbivore stresses, frost, cold, heat drought. And to use them as foliar applications. Yeah, just to make them available would feel really, really good.

Mikaela:

Inevitably I think they're all going to happen, but when? That's the question.

Byran:

We have to sleep too.

Mikaela:

Yeah.

Byran:

It's shame.

Mason:

Yeah, capacity is a thing.

Mikaela:

It is. I mean, it might not be us who does all those things, but I would love to see them all being rolled out somewhere.

Mason:

Yeah you can play with an idea. It doesn't mean you have to be the one to bring it forward.

Mikaela:

We're just blowing seeds right now, we're like dandelion's.

Mason:

Hell yeah, I like it. Eventually it's slow going, you can see how long it took Seabin to get in with the council. So I think the biggest thing for me, because I've had all kind of fandangled ideas as well, but then my business has a particular personality, and there's a particular kind of community member, or customer, who likes and my business likes, and is an appropriate customer. I think that's probably like... Yeah, it's always interesting to see where it unfolds. You might like large scale industrial farming, that might be the alchemical pull, who knows?

Byran:

And yeah, you go back to the education front and there's a lot of education in a lot of the really large agriculture areas, that could have such a huge impact too.

Mason:

Yeah, the impact's going to be big, you can sense that much.

Mikaela:

Yeah. I think a lot of it is people could be learning and implementing these on their own land. It's very accessible, it's all very accessible. It's just the knowhow needs to be created.

Mason:

Because there are going to be people who will come and want to buy from you guys now, are there online resources when they get their kits from you? Have you got any of your workshops online?

Byran:

No online workshops yet, but our website's up, it's alchemisticfungi.com and we have just a few different species of dowels available on there for your log inoculations. And then locally we're offering King Stropharia mycelium in 10 litre buckets.

Mikaela:

And now there'll be more.

Byran:

There'll always be more.

Mikaela:

And it's Alchemystic as in alchemy and mystic as one word.

Byran:

Yeah. We've toyed with the idea of online workshops and things like that. And yeah, once we finish our initial push on our foundational infrastructure, which is so close, I think we'll be starting to unpack sharing this information on an online platform, where we can reach a maximum amount of people as well.

Mason:

Cool. If people want to start interacting I'm sure they can get kits, and get some instructions and get going.

Mikaela:

Definitely.

Mason:

Yeah.

Mikaela:

Please do.

Mason:

Yeah, please do.

Mikaela:

Happy inoculating.

Mason:

Well, it's nice for me. In terms of non dependency, it seems to be a key tenant, that's what's come up recently. And it was funny, a couple of new people in the business, and I was like, "Maybe you don't understand this yet, and I haven't really done a good job in the process of what our customers are." The number one thing that would be a travesty and a spit in the face to the lineage, to healing, the general idea of healing, the dance between sovereign healing and going over and having a specialist help you out. Doesn't matter how old it is, is you need to not create dependency one way or another. You don't have dependency on just everything you know, and you also don't want to create dependency on an institution. It's like a nice harmony point there.

 

And so it's been nice to be like, sometimes there's going to be an end point for people where they're like, okay, I can't go any further with mushrooms in a jar. Or I've always said maybe they'll just find a sweet spot. They're just like, cool, I've got my jar there long term and I know my relationship with it, but the journey might be growing it and might be foraging. It's nice chatting to you guys and just reinvigorating the channel for when people are wanting to go and explore this.

Mikaela:

You'll find that if you go out foraging, suddenly you'll find mushrooms popping up everywhere because while you're foraging, you're getting coated in spores, and you're just a walking spore dispersal. And then they just start popping up in your garden. You're like, "Oh, hi, who are you?" And it's a really beautiful process of getting to know the many different species.

Byran:

Yeah. And it'll never end too, because only an estimated 10% of fungi produce mushrooms. And so that remaining 90% for us to start to play with them, in the lab and things doing serial dilutions and starting to try to cultivate these varieties that spend their whole lives underground or inside of plant tissues and things. I don't see us ever getting to the end of those rabbit holes.

Mikaela:

Some is meant to be left in mystery.

Mason:

Yeah we always need a little bit of mystery, don't we?

Mikaela:

It's exciting.

Mason:

Well, it's humbling. It brings science into a resonance of usefulness. And I was just talking about it yesterday, there's a book called The Science Delusion. I think I shared a meme about it. It was like Darth Vader, the scene telling Luke that he's his father, but telling him these are the limitations of current science. And Luke's going, "That's impossible." Just shared the Science Delusion book because it really especially transformed my own myopic monoculture rejection of the scientific method, and allowed me just to like, oh, I understand its limitations now.

 

Buhner did that for me as well. He's just like, "Just take it up until you can sense its usefulness, and then drop it." And this is where the scientific method needs to go. And so it's nice to have complete and utter mystery, and then that stabilising. All right, to the best of our ability we know this right now. And not just be like, well that's all that's probably possible.

Mikaela:

You need structure to create freedom.

Mason:

Yeah. That's like-

Mikaela:

To allow freedom.

Mason:

Do you reject that? I rejected it when I was younger and I was like, no.

Mikaela:

Oh, totally. It's my New Year's resolution.

Mason:

Really?

Mikaela:

To create structure so I have freedom.

Mason:

How do you approach structure?

Mikaela:

With a lot of fluidity.

Mason:

How ironic.

Mikaela:

Well it's always chopping and changing. As a woman, we're in these constant cyclical perpetuations, so it's never ending. And yeah, I guess it's just tuning in with self. So I know that I'd like to do roughly about this much work, and this much physical movement, and meditative practise, and integrating with the forest, and personal study, and music, and art. And it's prioritising it in my mind, and creating space for what's really alive in me at the moment. And that's where trying not to take on too many obligations, to allow for whatever is alive in me to come through.

Mason:

Thank you.

Mikaela:

You're welcome. Thank you.

Mason:

Take us up to an hour. I'm curious, are you ordered or chaotic in your tendency?

Byran:

It's always hard to judge yourself. I feel like a lot of friends will often refer to me as quite rock like.

Mikaela:

He is a rock. He's the most rock-like rock I've ever know.

Mason:

I've got dyslexia when it comes to astrology. But are you born in January?

Byran:

February. My birthday was February 20th.

Mikaela:

Pisces.

Mason:

Oh he's a Pisces, all right. I just know that the... What's the January one, the goat? Capricorn?

Mikaela:

Capricorn.

Mason:

No you're not a Capricorn.

Mikaela:

No, he's not a Capricorn.

Mason:

Okay, cool. Anyway. Nice try Mason.

Byran:

Yeah, yeah. I think I'm very dedicated. I consider myself a very hard worker and very dedicated to my work, and it's not a coincidence that I enjoy what I do as well. And yeah, I think this year I've made some really big changes. I've stopped drinking, quit coffee, a lot more physical practise, and that's made that decision just to really honour these organisms that we're working with, to just give them 110% and really allow them to work through me so that I can share them with as many people, is my goal.

Mason:

Do you mind if I ask, dare I say, as entrepreneurs, as an entrepreneur, there's always a hero's journey when it comes to this endeavour. So getting to that point, certain dependencies, sometimes they're useful periods, coffee, alcohol, whatever it is for pick your poison, whatever one goes. I don't like to put them into categories of bad in any way, but naturally you got to work with them. Do you have a process?

 

Because some people might be at that period, and I had that similar with alcohol this year. I was just like, oh, this is a no alcohol year, which just had a certain relevance. Did you come to that point naturally? Did you have a sequence of process you went through? Because it can be hard as a business owner to go through that process, while doing your job and living your life.

Byran:

Totally. I think what it was was just having that purpose of knowing why. And with that purpose, and it being quite a clear purpose, I'd say it's been really easy for me. There's definitely been days or weeks where, at the end of the day, would definitely think about having a drink, and mornings where I feel like a coffee could be nice. But overall, I think I wake up clearer, my energy's more sustained. I'm able to focus for longer duration, so I'm way more productive. And knowing that, it's better.

Mason:

Very nice. I imagine that coincides, maybe you've locked in the why in the business, because I just find it interesting because you watch it just happen naturally for people in times. And there has to be a process, maybe it was locked in as a foundational why, there was no confusion in the team, and therefore it's like, ah, it's possible now.

Mikaela:

Yeah, you get to a point where you evaluate where your energy's going, and where you want to be moving towards, and how would you like to be evolving. And it makes you question what in your life isn't serving you anymore, and is holding you back. So I feel that starting up a business is such a massive spiritual journey, and you have to keep showing up in these new ways. And yeah, it's been way bigger than I could have ever imagined, we could have imagined.

Byran:

Yeah.

Mikaela:

I would've had no idea.

Mason:

Yeah I think I shared a meme the other day and it was just like, "I don't do this because it's easy. I do it because I thought it was going to be easy."

Mikaela:

Yes. Oh, we all love the challenge, obviously.

Mason:

Yeah, we do.

Byran:

And yeah, if it was easy, you'd get bored. Yeah.

Mikaela:

That's the reality.

Byran:

It's got to be hard, there's got to be new challenges. You've got to be constantly learning, constantly pushing yourself, or you're just...

Mikaela:

Keeps it exciting.

Byran:

Yeah, it keeps it exciting.

Mikaela:

Yeah.

Mason:

Is there any really... I mean, you've been really generous with sharing. As much as connecting to the mushroom medicine, connecting to going for it, in the business sense. And with that why really embodied, I did a talk at a business event yesterday, and one of the questions that you could see people pining for, they were just like, "How do you get over the guilt around the money thing?" And I shared something similar we've talked about. It's just like, well, if you're only measuring value based on money, then naturally you're going to either become possessed by your chasing of money, or you're going to be scared of because you realise you've got an unhealthy attribution of value to it, and you're not measuring all the other areas in the business.

 

So you guys are like, I can feel you're there. So from your standpoint, just to finish this off, where are you at? What processes are you going through? Insights? Are you in transitions in the business that you would feel relevant and appropriate to share with other people, who may have ideas that they're wanting to bring to the world?

Mikaela:

Yeah we see money as a form of energy exchange. It is one value set that's highly valued in our society at the moment. A large focus on trust. So there's a structural element of not getting too far ahead of yourself so your finances are low, but there's also this aspect of, if you really believe in something, it's going to happen, or there'll be some kind of epic outcome for you. And that's mainly...

Byran: (01:06:48):

Yeah, trusting in the power of manifestation and intention. There's no doubt in my mind that those two things... It doesn't matter about your midichlorian count or something like that, or your force level off Star Wars, or something like that. If you truly set out the intention to do something, it'll get manifested for sure.

Mikaela:

And generally, if it's something that has a positive impact for the earth, or something that's greater than yourself, then you're supported by that mystery that we've been talking about, that mystery backs you.

Mason:

Yeah. I think it's beautiful and it's a worthy thing. You see too many people sacrifice that when it's like, oh, it's time to grow up and become money driven. If you can stay in your process and feel it.

Byran:

Yeah. I think in today's world, if a company gets big and the whole money situation and stuff like that, but I guess I would just keep bringing it back to if currency is our form of carbon, and carbon is nature's form of currency. If you look at the honey fungus in Oregon that's eight or nine thousand years old, weighs 75,000 tonnes, and covers, what is it, 2000 square kilometres or something like that? Is that organism selfish? No, it's just living its life, it's doing its thing. And yeah, it's exchanging carbon. It's doing a means of exchange with everything that it interacts with, and from its perspective, it's just doing its thing.

Mason:

I love it. You guys happy?

Mikaela:

Happy.

Mason:

Anything else bubbling to the surface you want to say to everyone before we head off?

Mikaela:

I feel like that's a pretty good note to end on.

Mason:

Pretty good bow?

Mikaela:

Yeah.

Byran:

Yeah.

Mason:

All right. Thank you so much.

Byran:

Thank you.

Mikaela:

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.